HELP- mum attacking pup

[petal]

hi
im not sure where to start really so sorry if it gets confusing!
one of my 4 week old pups died this morning, she had an RI and was giving her baytril. she seemed fine tbh (not too fluffed up, eyes wide open etc) until yesterday evening after i gave her the antibiotic. mum started chasing her around, i thought it was because mum was trying to clean her etc so didnt think much of it. over the course of the evening she didnt sleep with the rest and hid in a tunnel, looking more fluffed up.when i woke up this morning she was very nearly dead so seperated her and she died 10 minutes later. i didnt really inspect her as i thought it was the RI that killed her. well, i had also just started giving another one baytril as he had started looking ill. my vet said i could just as a precaution as he was clicking and sounding snuffly, but again not looking bad. so just now i gave him the baytril, mum chasees him around like a mad thing - there was squeaking etc it looked evil. whilst he hid in the tunnel i took him and the tunnel out for a few minutes then put him back in. again she went for him running around trying to bite him. i think she got him on the tail base but there doesnt seem to be a wound. so now ive taken him out as i darent put him back in, but what should i do? hes in a tank by himself at 4+2 days old. i doubt hes properly weaned. but tbh i havent seen mum nurse them in a while. shes pregnant with the next litter so that might have something to do with it. but what shall i do with him? i have a different dad and a 7 week old male pup in a tank, could i intro them? or i have another mum with her daughter, 2 male runts and a 5 day old pup in a tank? any use there? im utterly dissapointed as so far she had been a great mum and was thinking about putting the single 5 day old with her if she had her pups soon, but thats out of the question now.

any ideas? please help!

im sorry this is so long and probably half of it is irrelevent but i wanted to write anything that might help! thanks

[ohmylokix]

First off, Mom and Pups dare not be bred. RI is one of those 'fatal flaws' and chasing off pups is a red flag. More often than not, this WILL be passed down.

Secondly-- my mama gerbil did act differently toward the pups after they'd been treated. In fact, she groomed off all of their hair when I had spilled a bit of the med on them.

I'd take any adult males out now, and put the other pups with him. They *should* be OK. Some bread dipped in KMR a few times a day will supplement their diet.

[petal]

hiya
thanks fpr replying. i split cage the mum and pup for a while then re-intro'd them, she went straight for it so i have put dad with the pup. i was just considering putting them all with dad, but might wait a few days to see how shes behaving. im thinking the closer to 5 weeks the better then take them out - just incase theyre still being weaned. but at the moment she really is being fine with them. ive put KMR soaked bread in, but he turns his nose up at it and wont let me feed him it. i will keep trying though. i think its been too stressful for him for the moment so im just going to let him calm down and be with daddy.

i think she may be pregnant again with her 2nd litter so fingers crossed for the next lot.

[doug]

Is this the mom that had the 2 runts? If so the respiratory problem is very well a secondary issue, runts can have a hard time catching up in large litters, so you have a large litter with runts, they have to compete with the full size pups and often get pushed aside, as it gets closer to weaning time the milk starts to dry up and they are often still lacking in size due to lack of nutrition, then when the milk is gone many start the downward spiral and soon die. In a large litter like you had can feed extra protein rich foods to boost the quality of the milk and hopefully next time the runts will catch up.

The mother chasing off the pups is a normal act that isn't seen as much as it was when gerbils were fairly new to the pet trade, she is trying to make room for the new litter because she feels she doesn't have enough room already, so if you have a larger tank for her I would move her into it before the next litter.

Doug

[petal]

the mum attacking the pup wasnt the same mum who had the runts. they are doing fine with their sister, mum and new baby pup.

ive left her with her remaining 3 pups for a few days until they are 5 weeks. she isnt nursing them now. i will then move them in with dad and the other pup. she will be alone to have her next litter then though. but all the pups are male.

[doug]

Did the pup lick the baytril from the dropper or did you have to use a syringe to put it in its mouth?

Doug

[petal]

syringe, and it wriggles a lot! i dont think i got hardly any its it mouth tbh.

[doug]

It is very possible you aspirated (sp?) the pup, this is when the liquid goes into the lungs, I have done it on birds before and it sucks.

Doug

[petal]

i only gave it the baytril using a syringe after it showed symptoms of illness. the pup now seems fine.

[doug]

I was referring to the one that died after you gave her the baytril.

"until yesterday evening after i gave her the antibiotic. mum started chasing her around, i thought it was because mum was trying to clean her etc so didnt think much of it. over the course of the evening she didnt sleep with the rest and hid in a tunnel, looking more fluffed up.when i woke up this morning she was very nearly dead so seperated her and she died 10 minutes later."

[petal]

oh right sorry. erm.... i suppose that could have happened. it was just odd that she started chasing her and the other pup around after they had had the baytril.