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Post by squamies on Jun 18, 2013 12:19:00 GMT -8
Squamies, Are you saying that eg the Trixie house is not made by Trixie but by some contractor or even someone trying to imitate the product? Or where the manufacture of the product is contracted out to a third party who then takes short cuts? Or are you saying that the house is franchised out and someone is taking short cuts? In any event, the liability in the UK lies with the retailer. There's a contract of sale and The Sale of Goods Act. If anything happens, you go to them. If you are not happy, you go to them. The buyer cannot be expected to track down the manufacturer, who as you say, could be making one bit of the item or contracting the manufacture to a third party, or, as in Trixie's case, is in another country. That's why Trixie blatantly say on their website that any complaints should go to the retailer. In effect they are trying to pass the buck. There is of course , liability from the manufacturer , by virtue of....The wonderful case of the 'snail in the ginger beer ' which lays the foundation for product liability. I have already started my dissemination of knowledge..... on Amazon. It feels good. Honestly? I have no idea. I'm just saying that there seems to be, in the pet supplies business (and many other businesses too, if you look closely enough), different skins and brands slapped on the same pieces of crap. I'm not saying Trixie shouldn't be liable. Obviously if they sell the product, then they should be held accountable for their standards. Being from the US I have little knowledge of UK laws, but this is how things slip past customs and into the US-- not just pet supplies but childrens' toys with lead paint, for instance. It's the sad fact of capitalism that if they can save a dollar, they'll do it. "Consumers' safety? Who cares, as long as we don't get caught!" Spreading awareness like this is good. Especially in the case that there may be more products out there, sold under different brands or stores, with the exact same problem. I can't seem to find that hideaway online anywhere (I bought it almost eight years ago), but I'll keep my eyes open. If it is the same design, then I'd bet it will have the same dangers and problems.
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Post by streetwisegerbil on Jun 19, 2013 5:36:48 GMT -8
Sofluffy: so you wrote to Trixie themselves? Who did you write to?
What I find interesting, Is that their website lists about 40 different "houses" but for only 4 of these have they bothered to specifically state that it's made " without brackets or nails" . The implication is that the others are made with them, otherwise, why aren't they boasting about this?
If you give me their email address I think I will write to them. Is it : sales@trixie.de. ?
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Post by streetwisegerbil on Jun 19, 2013 5:40:45 GMT -8
Squamies,
Yes, you are right. These houses etc can spring up under different names.
But, If Trixie do NOT use nails and brackets in their houses, then they should be clamping down on retailers on amazon or eBay who are using their name if the counterfeit product has nails. I suspect it's not worth their while.
However, the very fact that Trixie selectively mentions the absence of nails in only 4 out of over 40 of their houses, implies or suggests that they do use nails at least in those other houses.
These threads are important as assumptions are made and with distance selling, you really don't have the chance to inspect and assess and there's all the hassle of bothering to return it/ complain etc. It's the ideal venue for selling dodgy goods
With eBay, there is limited opportunity to post a review.
With amazon, more so, hence where I am looking now.
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Post by sofluffy on Jun 19, 2013 9:39:34 GMT -8
Sofluffy: so you wrote to Trixie themselves? Who did you write to? What I find interesting, Is that their website lists about 40 different "houses" but for only 4 of these have they bothered to specifically state that it's made " without brackets or nails" . The implication is that the others are made with them, otherwise, why aren't they boasting about this? If you give me their email address I think I will write to them. Is it : sales@trixie.de. ? Yes, I emailed the above email, and a woman responded within a day. We kept emailing for a few days, until she sent me that final email. But then people could read the other items not being stated as having brackets or nails, as them not having them. Because the others items say they DO have them. So items that don't have this 'label' would suggest that they don't? It is rather misleading. I always vet anything I put in our gerbils tanks, and I really thought these houses were made where the wooden pieces just kind of 'slide' together and hold.
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Post by streetwisegerbil on Jun 19, 2013 17:15:14 GMT -8
The Luka house has a side bit which is tucked underneath the main house bit and swings out to form the side extension. I looked at this mechanism and saw dowels and assumed the rest was constructed in the same manner and was safe. Here's discussion about nails and L shaped brackets on the chinchilla forum, chins n hedgies. And a photo of the exposed L shaped brackets. www.chins-n-hedgies.com/forums/showthread.php?t=11613Some posters believed there were no nails etc ( presumably by stuff on the website / the web) , and others say there are nails etc. It's a thread from 2009 but it goes against what Trixie wrote to sofluffy when they said 'we hope that you trust us that we sell the item without pins'
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Post by streetwisegerbil on Jul 5, 2013 5:19:39 GMT -8
This thread now appears when you google 'Trixie natural living house' . Entry 16. And also 'Trixie house'. Hooray! Keep reading folks.
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Post by sofluffy on Jul 5, 2013 5:38:38 GMT -8
yaya!
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Post by eaturbyfill on Jul 5, 2013 12:17:26 GMT -8
Yikes. This is scary.
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Post by BoxRAddict on Aug 28, 2013 11:03:02 GMT -8
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Post by Demonic Hope on Aug 28, 2013 16:29:31 GMT -8
Those are fine. The problem with Pine and cedar is the oils. But pine bedding is totally fine if its Kiln Dried which removes the bad oils. Those sticks are fine.
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Post by squamies on Aug 28, 2013 16:53:45 GMT -8
Kiln drying doesn't remove the phenols, which are the aromatic compounds in pine and cedar that can lead to respiratory distress. Pine is usually kiln dried at temperatures between 60*C and 90*C, and phenol has a boiling point of 182*C, so it is untouched in the kiln drying process. Pine oil, a specific type of phenol, has a boiling point of 195*C, so if that's one of the "bad oils" you're referring to Demonic Hope, I don't think kiln drying treats the bedding the way you're describing. I stay away from pine wood for the most part, but I don't think giving it once in a rare while will be a problem. The problem occurs when the gerbil is kept on a pine-based bedding, at bedding-level, which causes it to breathe in the phenolic compounds constantly. That's enough to cause any animal respiratory issues.
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Post by Demonic Hope on Aug 28, 2013 17:30:20 GMT -8
Kiln drying doesn't remove the phenols, which are the aromatic compounds in pine and cedar that can lead to respiratory distress. Pine is usually kiln dried at temperatures between 60*C and 90*C, and phenol has a boiling point of 182*C, so it is untouched in the kiln drying process. Pine oil, a specific type of phenol, has a boiling point of 195*C, so if that's one of the "bad oils" you're referring to Demonic Hope, I don't think kiln drying treats the bedding the way you're describing. I stay away from pine wood for the most part, but I don't think giving it once in a rare while will be a problem. The problem occurs when the gerbil is kept on a pine-based bedding, at bedding-level, which causes it to breathe in the phenolic compounds constantly. That's enough to cause any animal respiratory issues. I have to disagree with you on it causing problems. I use Kiln Dry on all my animals from horses, to hamsters, mice, and my gerbils have never had a single respiratory infection. And that's with my breeding Syrian hamsters on it. Honestly I have read so many lab reports saying that Kiln Dried is fine I really don't see where the fuss about it comes from. Kiln Dried is fine.
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Post by squamies on Aug 28, 2013 20:50:34 GMT -8
Not trying to argue for or against kiln dried, just mentioning that your facts were off. I also didn't say it causes respiratory infections-- phenols don't inherently cause infections. I've read many lab reports that say the opposite as well. Just trying to get all the facts out there, especially what's happening (or not happening) at the chemical level, which is what you brought up. Edit: rereading my first post it definitely sounds like I'm saying kiln dried pine is bad. I meant to say I personally wouldn't use it. Not trying to accuse you, Demonic Hope, or any other kiln-dried users of improper care. There just seems to be a lot of misinformation out there, at least about what happens chemically when the pine is kiln-dried.
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Post by Demonic Hope on Aug 29, 2013 13:53:25 GMT -8
Not trying to argue for or against kiln dried, just mentioning that your facts were off. I also didn't say it causes respiratory infections-- phenols don't inherently cause infections. I've read many lab reports that say the opposite as well. Just trying to get all the facts out there, especially what's happening (or not happening) at the chemical level, which is what you brought up. Edit: rereading my first post it definitely sounds like I'm saying kiln dried pine is bad. I meant to say I personally wouldn't use it. Not trying to accuse you, Demonic Hope, or any other kiln-dried users of improper care. There just seems to be a lot of misinformation out there, at least about what happens chemically when the pine is kiln-dried. No Problem. I'm a little defensive on Kiln Dried Pine use. I've been called a bad owner to many times for using it. I've now read some reports that Aspen is bad for small animals. I think no matter what you use it can cause issues.
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