loxy
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Carer of Gerbils
Posts: 65
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Post by loxy on Sept 15, 2014 4:54:38 GMT -8
I'm asking on behalf of my mother who wants to have some of our female pups. She was originally going to take 2 girls in a 20 gallon tank but upon hearing that I'll probably have a spare female she's offered to expand the tank to 30 gallons and take three.
I'm apprehensive as I'm a strong believer of only having two girls together and having seen many many posts about girls groups declanning after months of no trouble.
Others say it works fine. I always wonder if they're the lucky ones.
I'm all about reducing risk so on one hand it might be alright but on the other it might not. Never had my gerbils fight before and not planning on starting now.
I know my mum would take ridiculously good care of them (They will be the most spoilt gerbils in the world), they'll have a lot of space, they'll have areas to play in outside the tank etc. It'd be nice to keep an eye on all the girls. If I don't let mum take her I'll need to find her new home somewhere else or see if we can pair her with a sibling from litter 2 when they come.
What would you guys do?
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loxy
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Carer of Gerbils
Posts: 65
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Post by loxy on Sept 21, 2014 1:10:41 GMT -8
I'd really appreciate some opinions on this, particularly from long term owners of girls groups. Is it not quite the right area of the forum? Maybe Behaviour?
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Post by betty on Sept 21, 2014 1:34:11 GMT -8
You are right to ask really - as I used to be really proud that all my females were happy together when I saw other people's declanning. However, all of mine have since declanned - except 3 (see below).
I have only had one set of 3 sisters and they declanned after a year; whereas my duet sisters are still going strong and are 2 years old now.
All my mother/daughter duets OR trios have declanned within a year (more commonly 6 months though) as well as all of my older/younger splits of females.
I know some females can be fine together so maybe there is something that can be attributed to my lines and or the environment.
I currently have one older female and a younger pup still together although there is some serious bum-swiping going on from the younger one (9 months) so I am watching them closely. I will try to never leave females together again, unless they are 2 sisters. And have had 2 other duet sister pairs live together until past 2.5 (one of one pair died - see below) and the others are still alive in another home).
However, saying that, I think I will always split back together older or single females as I am now quite good at spotting the signs, and would rather have them 'happy' and together for 6 months at a time rather than alone for ever as long as you split them before the bloodshed!
I am in the middle of splitting together 2 sisters who have lived their whole lives apart, but are now alone (1 partner died, the other partner was attacked by her 6 month old daughter; alone for a few months, then split with 2 pups who then attacked her, so alone again). I took out the divide yesterday and so far all is well - well they are both over 2 years now.
I would love to hear how many people have had females together until the death of one of them, as I myself will always assume that females will declan at some point - no matter how 'happy' they seem right now.
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rhianna
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Post by rhianna on Sept 21, 2014 5:15:51 GMT -8
I've never personally owned females but I will share with you what I've learned from research. Females are obviously more risky to keep together than males. It is usually not recommended for beginners to try keeping a trio of any kind, especially females. The reason trios often don't work out is because it allows two gerbils to gang up against the other one, which obviously doesn't end well. So far I've only kept one trio, and though they were males, I'm still very lucky that they didn't declan. So basically, I personally would recommend that even though your mom will spoil the gerbils, you still should probably only give her a pair. A pair would be just as happy in a 30 gallon tank anyways. That being said, there are a couple of things you can do to help prevent against declanning; try and give them only one hideaway in their habitat, or at least keep all hideaway/cave areas on one side. If there are separate hideaways on either side of the tank, the gerbils will tend to each take one for themselves and then become territorial over that side of the tank. Providing a hideaway on only one side of the tank allows for them to nest together and own the same territory. You can also make sure to save some of their bedding when you clean out the tank, and then return that used bedding to the tank once it's clean. That bedding has their scent on it so they won't have to go through the trouble of re-establishing dominance and territory, which can result in a fight. Something else that I've seen more with hamsters and not so much with gerbils is to give them multiple wheels, water bottles, and food bowls. I'm not 100% sure that this is effective with gerbils so you should get someone else's opinion on it, but with hamsters, it prevents something from happening such as one of the hamsters becoming territorial over the wheel, water bottle, and food bowl and then not letting the other hamster(s) use them. Good luck with your mom and her gerbils and I hope you get things figured out soon
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Post by MoonstoneGerbils on Sept 21, 2014 9:12:15 GMT -8
I keep large groups of gerbils by most people's standards. Often i have 5-7 males in a group, and 3-5 females in a group. The size of the group has more to do with the ratio's males happen to be born in my house. Hands down I have way more males than females in almost all my litters.
Declanning is the HUMANS FAILURE to notice when gerbils aren't getting along. Gerbils don't have these violent declans in the wild. In the wild they just leave the burrow, and don't come back. In a tank, gerbils can't regulate their relationships, they can't leave at will, and they are stuck where they are BECAUSE OF HUMANS. When keeping gerbils its the owners responsibility to monitor the relationships, look for signs of declanning and intercept these issues before the escalate to a fight.
I keep gerbils in big groups, in pairs, trios, quads, and what ever size group the gerbil do well together in. Gerbils who fail to get along, get repartnered/regrouped until they find a situation that they do well in. I don't consider any pair/group of a gerbils to be a life long partnership. I fully expect that at some point in their lives i might have to separate them. I have plenty of gerbils who live and die together in their groups. However, I'm open to them changing their minds.
I'm always in favor of keeping even number of gerbils in cage. This is the easiest thing to do. That way you always have the option to break them into pairs.
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loxy
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Carer of Gerbils
Posts: 65
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Post by loxy on Sept 22, 2014 2:37:37 GMT -8
Thanks guys, really appreciate the advice here. Betty's experience seems to support the general view that after a time female trios will eventually attempt to re-establish dominance and without any place to go will fight to resolve it unless moved on to a new group/pair as Moonstone would. I have observed that long term breeders are able to reshuffle gerbils into different groups depending on what pups they have/gerbils not getting along, and it not being set that they stay together forever.
That in mind I'll definitely be only giving her a pair, I'll keep the single in with her mother and sister temporarily with looking to pair her with a younger sibling from litter 2 or re-home to keep another gerbil company. It might work out well, I'd be kicking myself if I moved her on and then found myself with 3 girls in the next litter.
Thanks again for the detailed and honest advice everyone.
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Post by betty on Sept 22, 2014 3:13:23 GMT -8
Sorry everyone, I was using the word 'declan' to mean whenever I split up gerbils who were no longer getting on - either before or after a scuffle; I didn't realise it only meant splitting up after a massive fight - although the end result is the same.
In that case, I should have said that I have split up nearly all of my female groups at some point and have only missed the signs on some of my earlier female groups and unfortunately had them declan themselves.
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loxy
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Carer of Gerbils
Posts: 65
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Post by loxy on Sept 24, 2014 10:24:30 GMT -8
To be fair, Betty you're right in either usage. Whether you catch it or not the cause is the same, they don't see themselves as a clan anymore. Unfortunately for many people the first they know of it happening is finding a bloodied gerbil.
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