Unsure of whether to split together...

[betty]

I am on a roll with splitting gerbils at the moment after quite a few family changes going on; and suddenly 2 of my remaining single gerbils have got a story; so still considering whether to split or not?

Gerbil 1: Stiltskin - female - 22 months
Gerbil 2: Tilt - female - 18 months

Now, Stiltskin is Tilts mother but a lot has happened since then - including a declan.

Stiltskin had 2 consecutive litters; with Tilt being in the first litter, and PepaCub being kept from the second litter. They were together until PepaCub was 8 months old when I had to take out Stiltshin after lots of squabbling - mainly Pepacub to be honest.

So Tilt and PepaCub stayed together until the unexpected death of Pepacub at only 16 months a few weeks ago.

In the mean time I had re-paired Stiltskin with my PP male to create a CP line with no pink-eyes (as she is so lovely) and she had 2 further litters (over a year after the first 2). However, her first litter was 4 girls (all homed) and her last litter were 4 boys - so I had noone to leave her with.

Now, do you think it is wise to try and put mother and daughter back together - or will that family bond actually get in the way after an original mother-overthrow? Alternately, I have a 4 week old litter on the go - so would you pair both older girls to them instead?

Thanks for your comments...

[loxy]

This is theoretical, not from experience, but just my view based on what I've researched.

Pros would be that 1, they're family so there may be some element of kin recognition there, 2 they're not dissimilar in age. If there wasn't an issue between Stiltskin and Tilt in the first place (squabbling mainly between Stiltskin and PepaCub) then I think that's as good a chance as any with females. Was Tilt always less dominant than Stiltskin? That might help if they have clearly defined ranking. The problem with introducing pups to both I think is when the pup grows up and tries to assert dominance over the older gerbil (Potentially what happened with Pepacub)

I think there are also issues with giving an unrelated pup to a female that's had litters. In the wild an alpha female would be the only breeder in the clan. Her natural instinct would be to act hostile to another female's pups.

Does that make sense?

[betty]

Hmm, all very good points. It was quite a while ago on the original split so not sure on how it all knitted together with the mum and 2 daughters - and in the pairing left over, Tilt was always the first out when I opened the tank and PepaCub was always more reluctant to investigate something new. But I didn't really see them interacting a lot, weirdly they were a pair of my gerbils who weren't in full view of my sofa, so I must admit I probably didn't watch them as much as some of the others....

However, on splitting then together, I myself would be assuming that Tilt would be the more dominant one as her mother is just so lovely and laid back and older of course. Difficult to know, but that seems to be my thinking at the moment having not put them in a split tank yet.

I have however split together 2 of my other older breeding females with young pups after their own daughters ousted them, but one of them didn't last more than 6 months, and the other might well be on it's way out soon (at 9 months) - I might hasten to add - both through the younger pups choice, not in any way were the bad vibes coming from the mothers. So I am not totally against the 'other females pups' method short term.

Hmm?

[betty]

Well, I went for it - they are now in the split tank.

Lots of foot thumping and nose poking from the daughter; but also lots of 'sniff me please' from the mum. She just sat there with her face right up on the mesh waiting to be sniffed. No siding on, no frantic behaviour, just thumping and sniffing.

We shall see...

[betty]

Well, they haven't really come out of their corners today - not really moving about at all to be honest?

[loxy]

Sorry for not getting back sooner!

Well I suppose a lack of aggression always a good sign. Could take some time to get them together, hope it goes well for you

How do they act when you swap them?

[betty]

I've only swapped them once due to other things getting in the way and the mum not bothered but the daughter paces around a lot and approaches the mesh all the time for some time. They sleep/stand in each other place as well without digging it up.

[betty]

Just an update really - I gave up.

They didn't take well at first and after a first attempt failed, I got really busy for a while and so couldn't work on the regular swapping for a while so they lived in the split tank for a month or so.

When I finally got to swapping again, they were fine, they slept in each others beds and didn't act frantic, just dead casual every time, so I finally went for it again and all seemed well for about and hour - then the daughter started siding.  I let it settle, but I just didn't feel confident in the daughter.  There was no squeaking or ball fighting, just a seemingly endless urge by the daughter to keep bullying the mother - who almost seemed too quiet at this point.  After her busy life and the previous de-clan, I decided to let the mum retire herself out rather than be bullied by her daughter the whole time.

I'm not sure if this was the right choice as obviously I am not a gerbil, but she just didn't look happy in there.

She does now in a whole 2ft shelved tank to herself!

Hmm?