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Post by mcats on Feb 21, 2015 13:45:17 GMT -8
I asked about this in another thread but I think I was far too long-winded. Basically, I'm attempting to introduce two 2.5 month old gerbils(DOB: 12/02/14) to a 7+ month old. One of the 2.5 month old boys is EXTREMELY active, has more prominent testicles than his brother, and will claw at the screen divider when the 7 month old is on the other side(sniffing him/etc). I've seen no signs of aggression in the other two gerbils, nor have I seen any aggression from the "hyper-active" 2.5 month old towards his brother(who is very docile/submissive).
Could my active 2.5 month old be too aggressive for this intro? These are the boys whom I ended up buying from a pet store, where I was told two male gerbils couldn't be kept together/everyone who tries fails.
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Post by mcats on Feb 21, 2015 13:46:01 GMT -8
Quick note: They've been in the split-cage for a week now. I've also observed the 7 month old and the active 2.5 month old scent-marking.
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Post by betty on Feb 21, 2015 14:30:08 GMT -8
It isn't recommended to split any gerbils to a bonded pair anyway, let alone when one of the bonded pair is aggressive.
I suggest you stop the split before the bonded pair start fighting and someone really gets hurt. If you already have a happy couple, why would you risk losing that?
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Post by crittercrazy on Feb 21, 2015 15:40:25 GMT -8
I've actually had luck with introducing pairs to singles, but as Betty said, it sounds like your gerbils might not get along too well. Is there another gerbil you can introduce to the 7-month-old instead?
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Post by mcats on Feb 21, 2015 17:09:22 GMT -8
It isn't recommended to split any gerbils to a bonded pair anyway, let alone when one of the bonded pair is aggressive. I suggest you stop the split before the bonded pair start fighting and someone really gets hurt. If you already have a happy couple, why would you risk losing that? I had been looking for a gerbil/pair to adopt for my lone 7 month old for awhile; there's just not much available where I live(tried shelters, craigslist, etc). The closest ones(also over 2 months old) were about 4 hours away. We had to make a trip and I happened to call a small, locally owned pet store in the city we visited and they had 2 month old boys. They were in an aquarium with their siblings. I admittedly didn't watch them for very long but I saw no signs of aggression. I'm strongly leaning towards taking your advice and separating them. No blood has been shed and he doesn't ALWAYS scratch at the mesh when the 7 month old is on the other side, but I also don't see any good signs like sleeping beside the divider, grooming(possibly saw this between the docile boy and 7 month old), etc. Sigh. It's a tough decision as I don't know when I'll be able to find a friend for the 7 month old and I gave my SO the impression that "this is it." Now we're going to have two set-ups. I don't terribly mind(I enjoy having them) but we will be moving in a few months so that creates a little bit more complication. |
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Post by mcats on Feb 21, 2015 17:11:23 GMT -8
I've actually had luck with introducing pairs to singles, but as Betty said, it sounds like your gerbils might not get along too well. Is there another gerbil you can introduce to the 7-month-old instead? Not as of yet, unfortunately. |
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Post by betty on Feb 22, 2015 1:44:21 GMT -8
And don't forget that your gerbil is already with a friend, so he wouldn't have shown any signs of aggression would he? He is only appearing aggressive now to a new unknown gerbil who is trying to move in to their clan. Same as any territorial animal would.
I'm sure even you would get pretty annoyed if some random person you had never met moved into your family home without your permission and slept in your bed.
It would be lovely if they all got on, but most bonded gerbils just don't want new friends.
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Post by mcats on Feb 22, 2015 12:51:20 GMT -8
I had no idea that the two 2.5 month old boys would be bonded; they were in an aquarium with their siblings. Some sites said "under 3 months" is fine for pup to adult intros, some said under 2 months. I got the youngest gerbils I could find. I'm not pleased that I purchased them from a pet store; I would have rather adopted. I understand now that he potentially sees my 7 month old as a threat to himself/his brother.
I refuse to buy from the local pet store here as we boycott them. The shelter just has two bonded adults. I have no idea when we'll be able to find the 7 month old a friend.
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Post by betty on Feb 22, 2015 14:10:43 GMT -8
Sorry, I misread your ages, but the aggressive bit still stands. And obviously this gerbil still feels that your older one is a threat of some kind.
I had a young female before that I got at just 7 weeks to go with my 7 week old and she tore at mine like she was a rabid dog. She also attacked (through the divide) the male I tried her with. Some gerbils just aren't made for living with other gerbils. I've even had 6 month old daughters attack their mothers...
It's up to you if you carry on with your split, but I would be to hopeful based on this first week. But, it could happen as others have done it and succeeded.
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Post by mcats on Feb 25, 2015 9:51:42 GMT -8
No good signs yet but not much scratching at the screen, on the one guy's part. When I read about gerbil fights on here I become very nervous! I really don't want to wake up to blood, and I hope that's not a possibility even if I keep the 2.5 month old boys as a pair. The one guy(the "active" 2.5 month old) HAS calmed down a bit. He and his bro sleep at opposite ends of the divided tank from the 7 month old.
If I were to introduce them on neutral territory at some point, would a fight possibly cause the young pair to split up? I know with cats redirected aggression can occur in situations like that, or other poor association. I would not introduce them unless I saw some hopeful signs after 2 weeks, though it has been suggested to me.
It would mean a long drive, but I might be able to adopt my 7 month old boy's father or a sibling(slightly older litter) from his breeder as they're available now. I'm still hoping this works, though. I'd also be wary of introducing an adult to him, though I know it can be done.
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Post by betty on Feb 25, 2015 10:45:25 GMT -8
I have split gerbils together that weren't sleeping at the same end of the tank - it all depends on all the other factors like grooming and being calm etc. But showing aggression is never good.
Any gerbils at any time can declan, but it is very unlikely in related males (pairs or father and son groups), or 2 sibling sisters (these are the only combinations I have never had declan (they stayed together until death)). I once (before I knew better) had 8 males in a gigantic tank and all went well for nearly 2 years - but recently I had 5 young females declan at just 5 months.
And - others might correct me - but if you are doing the swapping sides split tank technique then it is actually better to introduce then in the actual tank they are living in - just take out the divide. The point of the split tank and the swapping is to make the gerbils feel at home on both sides - like they already live there with each other, so when you take the split out they don't have to 'win' the tank. They are supposed to think that they are just in their own home - no need to scent mark and squabble. If you stick them in an unscented place - like a bath tub - the first thing they are going to want to do is scent mark and then one will try to 'defend' a spot and you have just ruined all the effort you put in swapping them over. Most gerbils will 'get on' in a new environment for at least 5 minutes or more before they care about the other gerbil anyway - they are having too much fun looking around. But then the siding up will begin...
Good luck whatever you decide - either sticking with this one, or buying another related single. It is never easy.
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Post by mcats on Feb 26, 2015 10:54:10 GMT -8
Thank you. Introducing them in the aquarium they're in does make more sense to me and was my original plan, until I was told/read otherwise. We made the split to be removable, then put back in place for their first overnight together/other times I can't watch them during the initial full intro.
I'm still feeling torn. I'm very afraid they'll all end up getting on well, then fighting once they're a bit older. Or.. worse. On the other hand, I would like to only have one big set-up, as that's what I told my SO/we'll be moving across the country with these guys/etc.
Some scratching at the barrier while I was home yesterday, but also some long sniffing without occurrence. This is how it's been for awhile.
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Post by betty on Feb 26, 2015 11:36:03 GMT -8
I don't think any clan of gerbils comes with 100% no de-clan guarantee. I have had gerbils who have been through several splits in their life time. And I don't think that is a good enough reason to not try a split. Think of all the days they have friends compared to the ones they might be alone afterwards?
You just need to spot the signs before the fight where possible. I am always hoping to be able to take a gerbil out of a clan BEFORE any fighting by spotting the signs early (one gerbil sitting on it's own up top, chasing, etc).
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Feb 27, 2015 10:40:28 GMT -8
when a gerbil lives with 1 or more partners, there is always a chance they will declan & damage each other. It doesn't matter how or when they were introduced, or even if they are from the same litter.
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Post by mcats on Feb 27, 2015 12:13:07 GMT -8
I'm considering introducing them tomorrow by lifting the barrier, as it will be two weeks at that point. I'm still undecided, and will be watching them/doing many side switches today.
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