Who do you remove from a group after a declan?

[betty]

I have noticed that some people say to remove the aggressor and others say to remove the one who was attacked, so I was wondering if both worked?

Has anyone experienced both sides or do you always do one or the other?

I always take out the one who was attacked, presuming that the attacker has now 'won' the clan they were fighting for. And that they would also be more hyped up and more likely to want to go into a new split as the dominant one and so be harder to split.

I've never had any problems re-splitting the loser after they recover, but of course then they are alone for a short while when they are poorly and sore.

Would love to hear your stories and reasoning...

[Thelodar]

In my case I had to remove the aggressor (or at least I assume he was the aggressor) because he had fought with both of his cage mates, not just one.

[betty]

Oh well, at least yours was an obvious choice.

Did you ever spilt him to a new gerbil and if so what was the result?

[xovq]

I'd say it depends on the situation because sometimes you cant tell who the aggressor is. With the first declanning I took out the obvious aggressor, but didn't try introducing her to another gerbil. The most recent I couldn't tell who was the aggressor, so I observed them their behavior around the uninvolved gerbil. Both instances were groups of three with one gerbil from a different litter, and I ended up keeping siblings together.

[betty]

Yeah, I think same-litter siblings (especially in females) are most likely to stay together through thick and thin.

So xovq, your recent declan went by without any injuries or were both injured equally about the face? Otherwise what signs were you watching out for to know they were declanning.

Thanks..

[Thelodar]

I have not split him with a new friend yet, I'm still undecided as to whether or not I should.

[PurpleSheep]

Our trio consisted of one adult and two pups/young adults, with aggression between the pups. We removed the aggressor, since the other pup was very neurotic and we didn't think she would cope for very long on her own. I still think it was the right decision as our adult later developed health issues and wouldn't have been able to stand up to the aggressor pup.

We tried the aggressor with another, very submissive gerbil, but it didn't work out beyond a few months. She has always been super-bossy, even when we got her at 6 weeks' old, and she loves headbutting us if we don't give her treats or are in her way. We also tried the other of the original pups with the submissive gerbil and that didn't work out either, so the two original pups now live, reasonably happily, in a large permanent split.

[xovq]

Apr 27, 2015 23:50:09 GMT -8 betty said:

Yeah, I think same-litter siblings (especially in females) are most likely to stay together through thick and thin.

So xovq, your recent declan went by without any injuries or were both injured equally about the face? Otherwise what signs were you watching out for to know they were declanning.

Thanks..

They both had about the same amount and severity of bites around their neck and no injuries around the tail. I didn't notice any signs of declanning before that fight. I just heard them fighting one morning. I don't know who started it, but Clover, the one who ended up being removed, was first to back out from it, and therefore the loser I guess. What I did see was Clover diving into a small hiding area and Chive pursuing.

When I put Basil in with Clover in a neutral container, Clover was aggressively sniffing Basil while Basil was digging, and would then run away and start thumping. Basil ignored Clover, until Clover tried scent marking him. He didn't seem to like that, and would run away.

When Basil was with Chive, there wasn't any aggressive behavior. Chive just huddled next to Basil, while Basil dug in the corner, occasionally squeaking if Basil accidentally kicked him.

[betty]

Apr 28, 2015 4:41:32 GMT -8 Thelodar said:

I have not split him with a new friend yet, I'm still undecided as to whether or not I should.

I suppose it depends on whether you can make a suitable split cage for him - and then how old he is?

Most gerbils do get on well with friends and seeing them alone first and then together afterwards is such a difference. I had one on its own for ages and didn't look stressed or anything - but when she finally split with another gerbil - watching them grooming each other and sleeping in a heap just looked perfect.

[betty]

Apr 28, 2015 5:18:29 GMT -8 PurpleSheep said:

She has always been super-bossy, even when we got her at 6 weeks' old, and she loves headbutting us if we don't give her treats or are in her way.

I had a great gerbil like that - she would throw things around, demand to come out and all sorts of 'stroppy' behaviour. She didn't ever really settle with other gerbils. We had her with 2 pups for 6 months - but then they turned on her. I just don't think she was acting like a gerbil and other gerbil just didn't like it?

She was super people-friendly though - thank goodness!

[betty]

Apr 28, 2015 8:48:00 GMT -8 xovq said:

They both had about the same amount and severity of bites around their neck and no injuries around the tail. I didn't notice any signs of declanning before that fight. I just heard them fighting one morning. I don't know who started it, but Clover, the one who ended up being removed, was first to back out from it, and therefore the loser I guess. What I did see was Clover diving into a small hiding area and Chive pursuing.

I see. You caught it in time then - before one of them got weaker or too stressed. And then testing who worked with who afterwards showed their true colours.

How long has that been now then - and has their been any further squabbling between Basil and Chive when Clover was taken out? And has Clover ever had another friend since or is he now on his own?

[xovq]

It's been about 4 and a half weeks since the fight. Basil and Chive seem closer than they were before. I guess one thing unusual that I noticed when the three were still together is that I never saw any attempts to groom each other, or really much interaction beyond sleeping together. I've seen a lot more grooming between Basil and Chive, and Clover and his new companion, Peppercorn. Clover and Peppercorn are doing well so far. They've been together for almost 3 weeks I think.

[betty]

That's interesting about the grooming. I wonder if the grooming is to help prove that there is a new boss in town and things are going to be different from now on?

Do Peppercorn and Clover groom each other?

[redsky]

I would split depending on the group dynamics and the gerbil's personality. When I had my trio and they squabbled (we had a few 'wrestles' and 'chases' but never any blood). Usually it was Bournville (B) (originally a single gerbil at the pet shop) and Marshmallow (M) (the more forward of the sisters I got as her friends). I started to think it would be best to removed M as she would probably take better to a new friend and would be happier on her own than B would.
After a change in the house B went a little loopy and started picking on Fudge (F) too, so I was planning on taking F and M out and getting them a new cage, less stress for B to loose her 'friends' and have a new home. Luckily things settled and we never had another falling out. In fact when M passed B and F became quite close, I think to the detriment of F (who used to follow M, the bravest of the trio). Now F is on her own she's happy and super social with me now, although still attacks my OH.

[xovq]

Apr 29, 2015 12:42:51 GMT -8 betty said:

That's interesting about the grooming. I wonder if the grooming is to help prove that there is a new boss in town and things are going to be different from now on?

Do Peppercorn and Clover groom each other?

Yep, they both groom each other, but I've seen Clover groom Peppercorn more often.