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Post by t1gg3er on Aug 14, 2015 7:35:12 GMT -8
Comet & Ernie have been in their split for 2 weeks. A few days ago I stopped switching 3 times & went down to once a day as they were both getting stressed with it. Ernie (AKA Gnasher) was starting to nip/bite again after we've only just got him out of this behaviour. Comet (Mr Timid) was running away which seemed to undo everything we'd done to get him to a point where he'd hop onto our hands. Both had got wise to the treat in a jar trick so that wasn't working either.
Anyway, they seemed to want to be together - grooming, using the other's nest, really interested in each other but no aggression. So I just got myself all settled in for a few hours watch duty & took the splitter out. They went straight to each other, sniffed for about 5 seconds then went into a ball. So, back in with the splitter & they ended up on the opposite sides to where they started as I had Ernie pinned under a jar so it was easiest to lift Comet over. They immediately sat side by side against the splitter - no sign of aggression. They sniffed & groomed a little & after a few minutes both went straight to the nest the other had vacated a few minutes earlier & have now gone to sleep!
I know 2 weeks is a bit soon anyway, but I'm wondering whether I should abandon it altogether for now & spend more time getting each one more comfortable being handled & better able to handle 3 swaps per day before starting again? Or should I just plug along with one swap per day & give them another couple of weeks before I try again?
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Post by betty on Aug 14, 2015 8:27:38 GMT -8
These things are never easy. I have just given up on a split where they were grooming through the bars and sleeping in each others nest and all acting lovey-dovey. We even had about 30 minutes of eating and ignoring each other before the 'pinning down' started.
I have tried several intros with this pair now and we aren't getting past the half hour stage - so I think with mine anyway, I am giving up.
I do think they can get stressed with all the waking up, swapping over and lack of anything to do etc - especially with my older ones, so I don't go on for too long if I can help it - 4 weeks and 3 swaps is all I am prepared to do myself.
However, if you really want these 2 together and you don't have space for other gerbils and, of course, you don't want them on their own, then perhaps you have only 2 choices; keep trying with the split and hope you can tame them again afterwards, or make a great big permanent divided cage with a base and topper on each side and let them live side by side (without swapping them over again) and gain back that handle-ability that you had before - your special bond.
Hand taming them in a smaller space makes more sense though, but they may well be too frustrated with the tank they are in, so perhaps clean it out fully and leave them on just one side until they trust you again. So just like you suggested above - small and fresh with no other gerbil smells on 'their' side and see how that goes first?
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Post by t1gg3er on Aug 14, 2015 9:58:56 GMT -8
Thanks Betty. In my ideal little world they'd just get along like a house on fire, play & sleep together & live happily ever after. Even though they'd not been in the split very long I felt really disappointed when they went into a ball.
I'll give it another 2 weeks then see. They're in a 2" (19 US gallon) tank which, if they go together & I can put a topper on will be fine for 2. But obviously while they're in the split they have very little space. If it doesn't work next time I may shuffle the rest of the gang around & get these 2 into a permanent split in a big tank with toppers. Altho it would be lovely to see them sharing a nest...
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Post by t1gg3er on Aug 24, 2015 1:41:24 GMT -8
We just tried Comet & Ernie again and again they went into a ball within a minute. They sniffed a little (faces only) and then Comet started the tussle. This is Mr Timid who we had to take away from dad & brother because he was terrified so evidently he's developed some confidence!
After a very brief flurry, they were lay facing each other still in a kind of ball but not moving. At that point we got a jar over Comet & separated them. Was that the right thing to do or should we have waited to see what would happen as they weren't actually trying to hurt each other then, just laying there like some sort of stalemate?
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Post by betty on Aug 24, 2015 2:30:29 GMT -8
In my experience the non-moving ball fight is just the same as the real ball fight - just without any injuries. Whenever I have kept trying with a slow-mo ball it always eventually ended up as the real thing.
Most of mine were older gerbils though, so perhaps they don't want to actually fight so do the next best thing without causing themselves an injury either...
See what others say - but I might be inclined to keep them apart for now - either in a permanent split or in separate cages, then perhaps try again in a few months if you want it to be just those 2 together? If you are nervous about the introduction that can affect it's outcome too - you need to be confident too.
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Post by theia on Aug 24, 2015 2:50:36 GMT -8
As betty said nerves/stress from yourself can influence them, we noticed with our third attempt at introducing Silver and Crystal that when we forced ourselves to relax our shoulders, take deeper breaths and stand in a more relaxed but still ready pose, the gerbils also seemed to immediately calm down a little, so be aware of yourself as well.
If it were me I'd go for a long run like I did with Silver and Crystal, we tried introducing them after 1 week, then again 2 weeks after that, then I decided to leave it a while due to weekends away and therefore not wanting to introduce them and then leave them alone almost immediately after. I kept them in the same split and kept swapping them over every day (when I was home to do so), kept their cage fairly sparse of toys ec... but gave them tubes as per usual and a level or two to climb on, it was almost 3 months after the last attempt before we had the time and confidence to try 1 last time. They were slow going at first with a bit of frightened jumping around/away from each other, some uneventful confrontations where one would approach the other and the other would arch their body until one of them ran off, we distracted them if we felt that one of them was being overwhelmed by the attention of the other. Make sure if you try again to give them plenty of distractions i.e. toilet roll tubes and spread lots of different treats around the cage as well as being there to distract them yourself, sometimes I think fights happen just because they're not used to being sniffed and prodded by another gerbil at such close quarters and so become overwhelmed and react defensively. With us I had decided that the third attempt with Silver and Crystal was going to be the last, it was too stressful on us and them to continue on after it, so if it had failed I'd have settled for a permanent split (thankfully for us it succeeded).
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Post by psychotherapist on Aug 24, 2015 3:25:14 GMT -8
Sometimes patience is the key, as splits can take some time. But there is always the possibility that some gerbils will simply not get along.
My last split was an older male to 2 younger males. At first 1 of the youngsters and my eldest didn't get along, resulting in a ball fight and my eldest with a bite wound on his nose. I didn't give up though and they were introduced successfully 2 weeks later.
Nowadays they're the best of buddies and out of the trio, those 2 that fought are practically inseparable. So giving gerbils a bit more time can possibly work.
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Post by t1gg3er on Aug 24, 2015 4:42:44 GMT -8
Thanks for the replies. I don't think we were nervous - we hadn't really planned it but when I went to swap them over this morning & popped Ernie into Comet's side they went straight up to each other so I waited to see what would happen instead of moving Comet over straight away.
I may need to re-think their tank. I might be trying to push them together too fast as they're only in a 2 foot x 1 foot tank so have 1 square foot each & I don't want to keep them in such a small space for longer than I have to. The plan was if they went together they'd have the tank & a topper. I might switch some of the other gerbils around so I can put these 2 in a bigger tank & not stress about how much space they have whilst in the split.
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Post by betty on Aug 24, 2015 4:59:58 GMT -8
That is the perfect amount of space for a split - and is how big mine are.
I am also a bit cautious after they go together - so I tend to keep them in the smaller tank without the divide for a week or more afterwards, just so that nothing changes or upsets them...
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Post by t1gg3er on Aug 25, 2015 3:23:40 GMT -8
The boys were looking a bit fed up & to be honest they were getting stinky too. So this morning I've separated them. In one way I feel a bit deflated. But it's good to see them both with space & 'stuff' and doing gerbilly things again. Plus, even though I'd have preferred it not to have happened at all, the fact that it was Comet who started yesterday's fight has shown he's not quite the timid little scaredy cat he was a couple of months ago. So, every cloud has a silver lining.
I'll leave them as they for a little while & then decide whether to try them again or find a couple of pups for them.
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