ralliart12
Member
Hoping all gerbils have long, quality lives
Posts: 75 
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Post by ralliart12 on Aug 30, 2015 18:19:18 GMT -8
Hi fellows, I've an 18-day old pup that broke its rear right leg & unfortunately had to have that leg amputated. I came home to find it dragging its broken leg along while it's still crawling around, the broken leg hanging on by the skin only. It is highly likely due to a tank topper accident. It had been taking milk from its mother regularly before this & had no issue with mum & dad. It's the only pup in the mum's first litter. I took the pup to the vet immediately & the assessment was amputation because everyone was extremely sure the bone is completely broken & the remaining bone connected to the body is jutting out. In other words, there's no fixing the detached leg back to the main body. Or at least that's what the vet told me. Initial direction was to pull out the entire leg from the hip area (not my idea; I cringed at the thought) but in the end the vet was able to shorten the remaining broken end of the bone & use surgical glue as well as sewing to close the open wound. Actually my only thought at that moment was to keep the wound from being infected. The pup underwent local anesthesia during the operation. I will be getting the vet to take a look at it in 6 days' time & the thread-removal is scheduled to happen in 2 weeks. The pup is now in its own tiny (I do not want it to crawl around any further) container & there are no other gerbils housed with it. Lots of clean, shredded (by me) tissue paper is given to it. I intend to change the tissue daily though there is no longer any bleeding. I'm giving 0.03ml of antibiotics twice daily. My current concern: Qn1. Anybody like to take a look at the before & after images of the injury & provide some assessment, i.e. was the original wound as gone-case/bad as I thought; & did I make the right decision? & more importantly, is it as I'd deduced, i.e. due to cage accident instead of a bite? Warning: the following photos are cringe-worthy & graphic (to me), hence I didn't embed them but provide URLs instead: before: www.filedropper.com/img6921after: www.filedropper.com/img6922what was amputed: www.filedropper.com/img6924Qn2. I hesitate to introduce it back to the parents because the vet warned against high-risk of the mother chewing the thread. Not to mention the parents are already super-active around the pup. However, the pup is not off its mum's milk, & I tried to give it wet solid food (the same type as the adult) & some fruits; but it rejected both. I believe it has not learnt to drink from a water bottle yet. So in other words, I need it to drink from mum/get food from some other form/source. Anybody can teach me how? What I intend to do is to introduce it back to the mother under extremely-close supervision for a few hours to see if the mother will not try anything funny with it (it has been separated from mum for almost a full day now). Qn3. Are there certain go-to food that's a sure favourite with young gerbil pups? & anyway to accelerate it to learn to drink from a water bottle? I wish to ensure (& hasten) its weaning process so that it stays full without me leaving it unattended with mum. Qn4. Moving forward. what can I do for it while it is in its younger years? Defintiely the pup will adopt a gait to counter-balance its disability. I can also ensure a reliable source of food & water. But is there anything else I can do for it as it grows? Feeling terrible now... |
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Post by betty on Aug 31, 2015 3:44:25 GMT -8
I am not an expert on a lot of things, but I shall try to help you with things I know are important first.
Food - buy some kitten replacement milk from a pet store and that will be much more nutrient rich for the growing pup than anything else either instead of or on top of the mothers milk.
There are ways to do this that you can find in previous threads, but soaking it in chunks of white bread is one of the easiest and quickest ways for you so the pup can literally suck the milk off like it would suck the mothers milk. Then remove the bread and soak another piece (you don't really want it eating the bread as it will fill their tummies instead of leaving space for more milk). You can make this milk up with warm water so that suits the pups better too rather than freezing cold tap water.
There are ideas on here about hollowing out a biro tube (ink thing removed) and dripping the milk into the pups mouth really slowly and carefully. If you feed the pups on their backs with too much milk it can go up their nose really easily and cause all sorts of problems.
I will say that I had to take some pups from their mum at 21 days before, and gave them the bread/milk combo, sunflower hearts, crushed peanuts and egg biscuits (bird section) - plus small amounts of normal mix - and they all made it*.
*They lost weight at first due to the sudden loss of mothers milk - but they all came through.
I just had 'easy' food everywhere so they could eat whenever and wherever they were. Don't want them using valuable calories trying to find the food in the first place...
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Post by betty on Aug 31, 2015 3:50:22 GMT -8
Keep it warm - but not too hot.
A pup on its own mightn't be able to effectively control its temperature, so make sure it is out of any draughts and not on any cold or metal surfaces.
I am not sure what the mother or father would do if you put it back in with them, but I have a feeling it wouldn't be good news, so keeping him alone might not be a bad thing - see what others say on that.
Do you know anyone locally with any other baby gerbils (or potentially other baby rodents at weaning age) as you could take out another pup or pups from their nest to keep your singleton warm and loved? Many people on here have suggested mixed species pups in emergencies - let's hope someone with that experience can comment soon...
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Post by betty on Aug 31, 2015 3:56:52 GMT -8
Drinking from the water bottle isn't essential at this point - and they will learn they when they need to. No harm in having one in your hand that you can present to him in his little tank and get him to sniff after he has eaten so he gets used to it being there.
For now though, he will be getting his 'water' from the Kitten Milk (or you can soak bread in just water if you want) - but remember that although water is essential - there are no nutrients in just water, so don't fill his little tummy with just water all the time, when wet food and milk is just as effective for hydration.
Some people might suggest some baby foods alongside the milk as he grows, but remember, the Kitten Milk contains all the essential nutrients for pups to grow their bones and bodies - the baby food just contains essential nutrients more for maintenance.
Do give us a daily update on the little soldier and any more questions, but I hope that helps for now...
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Post by catnut on Aug 31, 2015 15:19:49 GMT -8
sorry to hear what happened to this poor baby, do hope he will be okay and you can get him to eat/drink. I wish I could add something but I've never had baby gerbils, only ill older gerbils I've cared for- sending good wishes he will be okay. Whatever happened don't feel bad, just deal with trying your best to get him healed.
Take care,
Tammy
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Post by MoonstoneGerbils on Sept 1, 2015 6:14:08 GMT -8
Kreg the Peg Leg He was attacked at about 5 weeks old and had to have his foot removed. (their feet actually go all the way to that first bend, gerbil walk on their toes)  He got around just fine, used a wheel just fine. Personally I'd slab some super glue on him, let it dry and then put him back with his mom. Or pull the dad out and make the dad live with the pup. Isolating a pup at such a young age can do some serious damamge to their social skills. Keep him with an adult, or older pup. Do not leave it along in a cage by itsself. I've bought gelatin (plain) and mixed it with formula to make a solid milk. Older pups have done well eating it. |
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Post by ninestone on Sept 1, 2015 17:50:09 GMT -8
Personally I'd slab some super glue on him, let it dry and then put him back with his mom. Or pull the dad out and make the dad live with the pup. Just to be clear, put the superglue over and around the stump stitches. Not elsewhere on the gerbil  . It (cyanoacrylate glue) is used as a medical adhesive (Ex Dermabond) especially in veterinary care. |
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ralliart12
Member
Hoping all gerbils have long, quality lives
Posts: 75
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Post by ralliart12 on Sept 2, 2015 8:35:55 GMT -8
Hi fellows, I know not how to multi-quote using this forum platform, so the following response goes out to all who'd posted above this reply. & I've some new questions in blue. Thanks for the information thus far. First, let me provide the bullet points: 1. Day 1 (almost a full 24 hour after the amputation): tried to introduce Bob back to the mother (only); usual sniffing ensued. Mother also tried to went after the thread on the wound. Tried again by inserting a piece of wire mesh between both, & I can't really determine if the behaviour exhibited is agression or just intense curiosity(or Bob desperately trying to get back to its mother). Bob also licks the side of the mom's tank while he's in there too. Bob show minimal interest in the bread crumb I threw into his very small box (I'm trying to minimize him crawling around; he must be extremely bored though). At this point, I do not know how to take care of his fluid. I also tried KMR but I probably left it too cold for him to even be attracted to it (I tried dripping a drop near the side of his mouth; he did not like that). 2. Day 2: I did not try to place Bob & his mother together today. I have also decided not to leave Bob & mom together unattended for a while now since there is no guarantee the mom will not tear the thread off (or worse, attack Bob). I really want Bob's wound to heal robustly. Bob shows no interested in dry/wet oatmeal, wet carrot bits, wet bread. Bob does however, finally eats the dry bread & even better, eats the crushed/pounded food. Some from my local community suggested wetting the sides of the container 3. Day 3 (today): I tried force-feeding it KMR at warmer temperature. At first he was like, "what's this"...& he resisted...resisted...suddenly he began actively licking it, i.e. the sticking-his-tongue-out-towards-the-dropper kind of licking...& then he resisted again, i.e. the drops just wet his cheeks & he refused to suckle the syringe. So I'm unsure of his stance towards KMR. He's still doing al right with pounded adult food, i.e. not eating too much & not eating too little. Just to emphasize: all the wet food feeding I done with Bob being transferred to a different container. Bob is never left in a container that has wet stuff. I do throw a few pieces of dry food into his daytime enclosure so that he can gnaw on them if he's hungry. I'd also prop his daytime container above a bowl of water so that no ants can reach him (my worse fear is that ants just get to him & overwhelmed him). I change the tissue in his daytime container daily & wash out that container daily as well). Moving forward Part #1 (short-term): I will be loaning another young gerbil (from my local community) to try to guide Bob to, most importantly, drink from a water bottle! & to another extent, accompany the chap. Fellows, I need some guidelines as to how best to intro the young gerbil to Bob without risk of aggression, i.e. what's to stop the new chap from biting Bob's thread (or worse...)Moving forward Part #2 (long-term): So, is it safe to say there ain't no chance of Bob returning to his mother full-time even after completely healing? I feel bad to have to separate this child from his mom so much way ahead of "schedule"? & if this is true, I'm quite alarmed that gerbil parents forget their young just after 24 hours...that's not very "mammal-like"... Also, if I have an incoming litter, will it be al right for me to group (permanently) Bob & his much younger siblings once those siblings are weaned? I just don't wish to destroy his social life just due to one (al beit terrible) mishap. Just to reiterate: Bob is 22 days old as of today (02 Sep 2015). So I guess according to typical young gerbil timeline, he is still "supposed to be" on his mom's milk...  Btw, I'd been giving me 0.03ml of Enrofloxacin syrup twice daily since the amputation, in case anyone has anything to chime in about this. & tammy, Every little bit helps; but these few days I keep revisiting this thought in my mind: was it the right call to allow the vet to amputate the leg...  & ninestone & @moonstonegerbils: I'd almost thought MoonstoneGerbils was joking about the superglue; fellows, just to be clear, this is the most desperate last resort right? & betty, do note my concerns about the ants (or other insects) & the food in the container. |
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Post by catnut on Sept 2, 2015 15:51:01 GMT -8
glad Bob is hanging in there and hope he is getting enough to eat. I do hope he can have a buddy who will help him out, he is probably very lonely by himself. If it was as damaged as you said, I didn't look at the photos, I don't think you had a choice for Bob to even had a chance to live and I would've done the same. Does Bob let you hold him and stroke him? I'm sure touch would also encourage him to eat. Make sure to give him paper towels,ripped up, for a bed for warmth.
Take care and good wishes for Bob,
Tammy
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ralliart12
Member
Hoping all gerbils have long, quality lives
Posts: 75
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Post by ralliart12 on Sept 2, 2015 16:49:33 GMT -8
glad Bob is hanging in there and hope he is getting enough to eat. I do hope he can have a buddy who will help him out, he is probably very lonely by himself. If it was as damaged as you said, I didn't look at the photos, I don't think you had a choice for Bob to even had a chance to live and I would've done the same. Does Bob let you hold him and stroke him? I'm sure touch would also encourage him to eat. Make sure to give him paper towels,ripped up, for a bed for warmth. Take care and good wishes for Bob, Tammy Yes, he is indeed very lonely as he's all by himself in a container with a floor area of 1.5 palm size (I wanted to restrict him crawling around for the 1st few days after his amputation. However, as I'm getting another young gerbil for him to at least know "someone's around", I will be shifting both his would-be companion & him to a significantly larger container. Given a choice, would you fellows pick a 4-week old, or a 8-week old to accompany him? & how to stop the new friend from chewing on Bob's wound? I can't possibly apply vegetable oil to Bob's wound (like how some deter their gerbils from cage-chewing), right?You know, I never really try sitting Bob ( without restraint) in my hand & stroking him. These few days every time I grab him (gently but firmly), he knows a syringe is coming near his mouth. I'd been so freaking out about force-feeding him the KMR, water & antibiotic that I forgot to just spend time bonding with him. & yup, Bob's getting fresh manually-shredded tissue paper in a container that's washed daily. I will try to get some photos & videos up over the weekend, for everyone here to assess his behavior. |
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Post by t1gg3er on Sept 3, 2015 0:11:12 GMT -8
It sounds as though Bob's a tough little fighter bless him. I can't offer much advice on your questions but wanted to send good wishes to you both. Could the youngster you introduce him to become his permanent companion so they can bond at a young age & stay together so neither will have to go through another introduction further down the line?
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ralliart12
Member
Hoping all gerbils have long, quality lives
Posts: 75
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Post by ralliart12 on Sept 3, 2015 0:46:18 GMT -8
It sounds as though Bob's a tough little fighter bless him. I can't offer much advice on your questions but wanted to send good wishes to you both. Could the youngster you introduce him to become his permanent companion so they can bond at a young age & stay together so neither will have to go through another introduction further down the line? Hi t1gg3er, I don't think that's possible. The visiting gerbil is really intended to be a " loaner". |
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Post by betty on Sept 3, 2015 7:56:39 GMT -8
If you are getting him a friend I would get one as young as possible as they don't tend to know they need to get to know each other - they are just babies looking to huddle up with other babies - however, if this gerbil isn't going to become his permanent friend - then I would consider getting 2 to join him. Not only is 3 warmer than 2 - but then if you are taking the other pups away after a few weeks - then at least they will be in a clan already and can be kept in that pair for ever after. It is unlikely they will easily go back with their mum or siblings after several week apart anyway.
Once gerbils top 8 weeks, they become harder to mix back in with other gerbils. So decide first of all what you want to do with the 'loaner' gerbils and the singleton first before deciding how many loaners you need to borrow.
Glad to hear he is doing well though, and like I said, I have had survivors from 21 days without mums milk so he should be fine. I'm sure he is drinking more than you think although keep up with the nutritious food. How much does he weigh out of interest as this could be a guage of whether he is doing well.
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Post by catnut on Sept 3, 2015 15:00:53 GMT -8
it could be easier to feed him if he knows he is getting attention when not being fed so he won't feel as stressed and I'm sure with another gerbil (or two) he will love the company. Is Bob going back to the vets to be checked at any time? you could also ask at the vets any questions you have about his care. Does he like Banana at all? most of my gerbils love it and it should be okay to give him, just a tiny bit at a time of course.
it would be nice to see photos of how he is doing when you have some.
Rooting for Bob,
Tammy
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Post by Shooting Star on Sept 4, 2015 2:27:56 GMT -8
I've always had good results with mixing up some kmr, then making oatmeal with the kmr as the liquid component. For fluid, leave him some fruit or veg (peas, grapes, cucumber, etc.). I'm not sure why you'd be worried about ants? Unless your house has an ant problem, that really shouldn't be an issue.
Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards
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. It (cyanoacrylate glue) is used as a medical adhesive (Ex Dermabond) especially in veterinary care.
