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Post by aj2013 on Oct 22, 2015 11:25:24 GMT -8
I think it's probably at least a day, maybe two, old, partly from how it looks and also I haven't seen Sherlock really go after Watson for a day or two. Watson does have a few places where this has happened, so it would appear that Sherlock has really tried to attack Watson several times. I might try to post a picture of Watson if it would be helpful to know the extent of what happened, but he is still very squirmy when I handle him so I might not be able to get one. And Sherlock just went after Watson as I was typing this. I REALLY want Watson to have a friend, and he and Mycroft would probably work together, but I REALLY don't want to take Sherlock back either. I don't want to keep Sherlock and Mycroft separate and try to introduce yet another pup to Watson in case the second intro didn't end up working either. If Sherlock and Watson absolutely won't work, I guess I'll get another tank to keep Watson in and maybe he can play with Mycroft when I let them run on the sofa.
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Post by GerbilUK on Oct 23, 2015 8:35:31 GMT -8
Sorry to hear that you are having problems with your split- I've had a very similar situation this week with my intro between an adult female and a baby female. The adult was so aggressive towards the baby that I added another layer of mesh WITH a couple of pieces of wood to keep the mesh pieces at least 1cm apart. I suggest you try to rig up something like this at least for the time being so at least no one is getting hurt. I have had noses and an ear bitten through the mesh before, (not this intro) and its really horrible to see.
Now about your intro: how old is Watson again? And Sherlock is about 6 weeks old now? I would persevere for a while if I were you. My adult female has calmed right down now after only a couple of days- down to single mesh and she is grooming the baby and sleeping in the nest etc. I would give them a week, swapping sides, remove the double mesh if you feel it's safe enough. See how it goes, give them a bit more of a chance.
If it doesn't work out, I would keep S and M together as they are already friends. I really think the chances of Watson accepting a young pup is very high- he has not shown any aggression towards S and M (has he?) so he's very likely to accept a different pup. I have done half a dozen intros males-pups and never had any problems. It's just not in the males nature to attack babies.
Hope some of this helps
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Post by t1gg3er on Oct 23, 2015 9:32:15 GMT -8
I've never heard of such a young pup wounding an adult before. Is it definitely Sherlock that's caused the damage or is there a possibility Watson may have found a raw edge somewhere around the divider? I know from personal experience how sharp the edges of the mesh are if they're exposed.
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Post by GerbilUK on Oct 23, 2015 12:11:48 GMT -8
Also, how sure are you of sherlock's age? Pet shops often say the gerbils are younger than they actually are... Maybe he is older than you think?
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Post by aj2013 on Oct 28, 2015 8:15:50 GMT -8
Sorry for the long delay..I've been sick so I haven't been checking on here. Yes, Sherlock is definitely attacking Watson. I remember watching Sherlock try to fight and actually being rather amazed that Watson wasn't hurt...although it turns out he was. Fortunately S only got W's fur. The only hint aggression I've seen from W is in response to S trying to attack. Occasionally W shows S his side (that's how he got hurt), but usually he just goes away. Sometimes it seems like W is trying to act submissive, just lowering his head, half-closing his eyes, and staying still, like they do when they're being groomed. I've heard two different stories on Watson's age, one person told me he was under five months, another said he was around two months. S and M are definitely very young, they seemed absolutely tiny when I got them, especially when compared to Watson. They're definitely still smaller than Watson (although he's just starting on on a bit of a diet now, I was a bit heavy-handed with treats when I tamed him ). I don't know how to tell an exact age though, so all I really have to go on is size. I noticed a few days ago that Sherlock was a little ouchie as well, but I don't know if that was his own doing or Watson's. I was careful to make sure there were no sharp edges on the divider, although I suppose if one of them got super mad and just hurled themselves at it they could get hurt. Unfortunately I haven't really been around them much in the last few days since I didn't want to give them my cold, so I don't really know what the fighting situation is at the moment. I haven't really seen them trying to fight, but that doesn't mean they aren't. I'm going to try the split as long as possible and maybe try a more permanent split if it doesn't work. Anyways...I've been a bit long-winded but hopefully this helps.
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Post by aj2013 on Oct 28, 2015 9:47:02 GMT -8
okay... i'm really worried about sherlock. I've been around the cage today a lot more than I have been, and sherlock is squeaking rather loudly and almost constantly. i put gloves on and picked him up and the only thing wrong i noticed was that two of his toenails, one on a back and one on a front foot, were sort of bloody. my last pair of gerbils would pull of a toenail occasionally, and it was no big deal, and it looks like that except the nail just sort of got twisted and didn't come off. i don't know how this happened or if that's why he's squeaking. At first he was squeaking when they were both in the nest so I just thought that Mycroft was grooming him and he didn't like it and was squeakng, but he's doing it a lot and even if no one is around. Do you think he's in pain? Any thoughts?
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PurpleSheep
Member
Bossed around by rodents & a toddler
Posts: 331
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Post by PurpleSheep on Oct 28, 2015 11:43:08 GMT -8
It may be possible that Watson tried to pull off the toenail through the divider. This happened twice to us with our girls who are in a permanent split. If you are planning on continuing with the split,is there any way you can insert a second layer of mesh to stop them from getting at each other?
Unfortunately, it will be very difficult to figure out how the injury happened unless you actually witness it. If he is squeaking, he is probably scared and in pain, so it may be worth taking him to the vets if he doesn't get better for some pain meds.p
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Post by aj2013 on Oct 28, 2015 12:17:33 GMT -8
Yes, I think I can upgrade the divider. I was going to do that but then I got sick . Would it be a good idea to completely separate them for a few days? That way Sherlock and Watson could get a chance to heal and I can get over this cold and give them the attention they need when I put them back together. Or would that just screw up any progress they might have made so far?
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PurpleSheep
Member
Bossed around by rodents & a toddler
Posts: 331
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Post by PurpleSheep on Oct 28, 2015 14:57:07 GMT -8
It wouldn't be a good idea to separate them completely if you are still hoping to have them as a trio. You will lose any progress and since 2 to 1 intros only work with a very young pair, the chances for it working on the second attempt will be very slim.
It is worth considering perhaps keeping the pups as a separate pair and getting another friend for Watson. If the split is so difficult, you may still have problems even when they are together. We had a similar issue with our first intro, which was really easy at first but then one of the pups started attacking the other. They lived as a trio for a few months and we kept on resplitting them, but we had to realise it wasn't going to work in the long term. It was devastating as the three were so cute together but unfortunately, there is no way to make gerbils live together if they don't want to!
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Post by aj2013 on Oct 28, 2015 15:19:46 GMT -8
Well, I ended up separating them this afternoon since Sherlock was repeatedly trying to attack Watson and I hadn't gotten a chance to work on the divider. I probably won't try putting them back together, since things were sketchy from the beginning it seemed they only got worse as time went on. I feel really bad that I let it go this far and both Sherlock and Watson got hurt . I would have to think long and hard before I got another pup because I really don't want to go through all this again. But from what you said it sounds like 1 to 1 intros might work better? Thank you again everybody for all the help.
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Post by theia on Oct 29, 2015 1:49:30 GMT -8
Yes 1 to 1 intros have a much higher success rate than 1 to 2 or more, we had to make the same decision to abandon a split when trying a 1 to 3 split because one of the 3 was incredibly agressive (in our case the other 2 out of the 3 were accepting immediately and the lone 1 accepted them back immediately too) and after a week of no improvement with that one super aggressive gerbil we found a few drops of blood in the cage and decided it wasn't worth the stress to them or to us.
If you decide to try again I would suggest waiting a couple of weeks before you try splitting your lone gerbil with a new friend again, this will give him time to heal and to forget about his experience, if you try too soon he may be instantly aggressive to the new gerbil thinking it's the same one that was tormenting him before. Plus you'll want to quarantine the new gerbil for a couple of weeks anyway to ensure he doesn't have anything wrong with him that could be passed on. As with any intro the younger the gerbils the better the chances, so I'd try looking for another 6 to 8 week old again. (And might I suggest the name Moriarty for the new one if you don't already have something named that/a name in mind XD ).
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Post by t1gg3er on Oct 29, 2015 4:29:45 GMT -8
It's a shame it didn't work out but you've probably done the best thing for them & for you. Introducing Watson to a single pup (after having some time to get over this) would probably be easy. But if you think he's submissive then maybe try to choose a quiet pup to avoid any scuffles when the pup grows up & tries to take over? We introduced a very timid 6 month old boy (Comet) to a lovely quiet, shy pup (Asterix) within 3 days & they absolutely adore each other. Comet's confidence has grown & because Asterix is so quiet I don't think it's occurred to him to challenge Comet in any way.
Good luck with whatever you decide to do & I hope you & your boys are all feeling better soon x
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Post by aj2013 on Oct 31, 2015 12:06:32 GMT -8
I just wanted to thank all of you wonderful people again for helping me with all my questions and concerns! Today I got another 20 gallon tank for Watson, (Sherlock and Mycroft got the other 20 gal.) and that way I still have room if I want to try again to find him a friend. (I love the name Moriarty by the way!) Thanks everyone!
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Post by GerbilUK on Nov 3, 2015 8:29:34 GMT -8
I think you have done the right thing. Sherlock and mycroft still have each other and Watson isn't any worse off than before....you just have some extra gerbils now! (That sort of thing is why I currently have 8!) let the dust settle and then see about getting a pup for Watson, when you are ready. It may take time to source a pup less than 8 weeks old anyway. To be sure you are best off with a breeder. If Watson is a submissive type, which it sounds like he is, then he will be fine with a pup, and if the pup wants to be boss later on, it's unlikely that Watson will mind that either! Good luck.
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Post by GerbilUK on Nov 3, 2015 8:35:09 GMT -8
I should add that I have just had a split go wrong, leaving me with an 8 week old female on her own....she is now in a permanent split with a lone old male of mine who hates other males, so he's delighted and they do have company of sorts (can groom each other as I have wide mesh etc) BUT its not optimal for a young gerbil ! I do feel rather guilty for taking her away from her sisters for no reason in the end. I keep reminding myself that I did it for the best, I was trying to give the lone adult female the chance of a friend and a happier life. I will look for a friend for her one day, when I have room and things have settled down a bit. But it is really disappointing I know!
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