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Post by gerby on Dec 7, 2015 4:53:12 GMT -8
Yes, maybe I did move too fast It was 1 week that they were living in the split tank, all seemed completely find from both sides. The pubs were fine, the (obviously) submissive one was running around burrowing as usual. The more dominant one interacted with Cerys a few times, and Cerys started washing her around her head. Then Cerys went off and burrowed, the pup followed her then the attack took place. It all happened so quickly! I had my gloves on to separate them but it was so difficult. There was blood around the tank and on me as well poor Cerys. I just don't think I can risk that happening again. I don't know what to do for the best
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Post by GerbilUK on Dec 7, 2015 8:12:53 GMT -8
Oh gosh really sorry that things went wrong for you- luckily for Cerys you were there to sort things out! I'm sure she will be fine health wise, all of my gerbils wounded in battle have healed up really well and quickly.
Sounds like you couldn't have foreseen what happened...I have never split my adult/pup intro for more than a week and have had no problems although having said that I have never done more than one pup at a time.
How old are the pups exactly now?
I am thinking that you are going to have to keep the pups as a pair now and look for another friend for Cerys- maybe a male pup on his own or a rescue male?
Maybe I'm being too pessimistic, but it does sound like the dominant pup really wasn't happy about Cerys being there, even after a week of being split. I guess the pups are already their own little clan.
Sorry again, I do find these things have a way of working out eventually
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Post by gerby on Dec 8, 2015 2:40:11 GMT -8
The pups are just over 7 weeks old now.
How would I go about having a male with a female? Can males be neutered? I don't want baby gerbs! I would happily rescue an older male too if I can find one. I would love for Cerys to have a friend to snuggle up to!
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Post by GerbilUK on Dec 8, 2015 3:22:28 GMT -8
Hmm that's a difficult situation... I'm surprised that such a young pup would attack an adult...however there's no accounting for gerbil personality I guess!
Part of me thinks it might be worth trying again with the pups as they are still so young but I know from experience how stressful that is.
If you read my thread 'confused about dominance' a bit further down you will see some advice from Betty about pairing older females and males. Basically if the female is older than one year and inmates she is very very very unlikely to become pregnant. It's something I'll be doing mysf soon as I have an ageing gerbil population of both sexes, and I know it's a leap of faith, but I think the evidence is really quite substantial that a pregnancy will not result. Have a look anyway. Males and females are easy to introduce for obvious reason, though you will still need to split cage them as usual of course. Hth
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Post by GerbilUK on Dec 8, 2015 3:23:44 GMT -8
Unmated that should say:-)
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Post by betty on Dec 9, 2015 3:16:02 GMT -8
That is VERY strange for such a young pup to be so angry, but I have had it myself at 6 weeks, I just couldn't believe it at the time because she was so tiny (and so cute looking of course), but she was so confident in her authority.
However it turns out that she does this to everyone for the first 2 days in a split (really savage at the bars), even with males. After that time she falls in love and she was happily married for some time before recently retiring with her wonderful daughter.
And also, if it would make you happier about homing a male, you can actual neuter male gerbils if you find the right vet...
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Post by gerby on Dec 20, 2015 4:45:25 GMT -8
Thanks everyone. Cerys healed remarkably from her wounds, such hardy animals are gerbils. I had to take her to the vet this week as she developed an eye infection, which the vet suggested is largely caused by stress. My vet advised that I try the split tank method again, as did someone I work with (who is an animal behaviorist). I also seeked advice from a local animal rescue centre (Wood Green Animal Shelters) but the man there said that Cerys would never get on with another gerbil! I was quite shocked to hear this to be honest, especially as it was Cerys who was the victim! So I have ignored his advice, and am going to try the split tank method for 4 weeks. I just feel guilty because they don't have any enrichment in their home... is it a definite no-no to not have anything in there apart from bedding and food/hay?
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Post by theia on Dec 20, 2015 5:44:18 GMT -8
They can have cardboard tubes to chew on and help keep them entertained, but having anything else (even foodbowls) can make the bonding harder as they can get territorial over anything (scent marking items every time they are switched over is a sign of territorialism).
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Post by gerby on Jan 8, 2016 8:21:23 GMT -8
Hi,
It's been over 3 weeks now since doing the split method.... do I try to re-introduce again? The gerbils have shown no aggression whatsoever, they go about their normal routines, eating, grooming etc without paying much attention to the other side. Should I do anything different? Last time, I moved the 2 mesh dividers, then watched them run around the tank freely. They were ok for about 5 mins, no signs of aggression before the fight suddenly broke out. I am petrified of seeing one of my gerbils getting hurt again.
Any tips would be greatly appreciated! :-)
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Post by betty on Jan 8, 2016 8:32:46 GMT -8
How do they act when you switch sides? Do they act like normal, do they start scent marking and sniffing, do they go straight to sleep, eat, chew? Do they turn the place over?
Or have they just been in the permanent split with their own side only?
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Post by gerby on Jan 8, 2016 11:02:48 GMT -8
Hi Betty, They act completely as ease when switching over. They sleep in the same beds... But this was how they were last time but I was obviously wrong because they had a big fight. x
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Post by betty on Jan 8, 2016 13:02:06 GMT -8
I did have a male and female split that did this. Totally fine in the split - one of the only pairs I have ever had that slept next to each other at the split itself, no scent-marking or anything.
They just wouldn't tolerate each other in the same tank. First intro lasted 3 hours before they just randomly faced off. after another week in the split, it only took one hour, and after another 2 weeks, they put in another 2 hours.
Not sure why this couple weren't having it as both had been split to other gerbils previously. Must have just been a low level dislike. They put up with each other for as long as they could before having to say something?
Either way, I gave up.
Perhaps, you could swap them over in the morning, then leave to simmer for about 30 minutes to an hour then put one of the pups onto Cerys side - preferably the one who didn't attack her last time, throw in a few bits of yummy food and watch, if all seems well for about another half an hour or so - or longer if you aren't sure, then slide out the divide. Your grumpy gerbil will then be the outsider temporarily and may see that the other two are 'friends' and so try to fit in rather than take over?
It might not work either way of course, but at least the slower approach isn't so confrontational? And if she fights with the first friendlier one, then no need to introduce the second grumpy one.
I have tried the diluted approach before just twice and it was successful both times, but I am very very very choosy about when I use it. So get your gloves and a friend with a tub the next day you have free, and give it a go if you think it is time - 3 weeks + all the right signs should be enough time.
There is only one way you are going to find out if they get on.
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Post by gerby on Jan 18, 2016 6:18:25 GMT -8
Good news... well so far, so good anyway. After being the split tank for 4 weeks, I decided to try and bond them this time away from the tank in a neutral area. I put some news paper down in the bath tub and put some neutral loo rolls and a few other bits, along with some food scattered about. I also completely cleaned out Cerys' older tank and put in fresh bedding. So it was completely neutral. I placed the gerbils in the bath tub and watched them for just over an hour. Quite positive signs, and no fighting. This time, Cerys was much more interested in the younger pups. The dominant put who attacked Cerys last time, was also interested in Cerys and most of the time was spent with these 2 interacting with each other. The submissive pup just ran around like a lunatic trying to escape (she is always like this lol! ) I have a video which I will post later this evening so you can see how they were. After an hour of fairly calm activity I then placed them all into a small carrier and then straight into the new, clean tank. I watched them for another hour, and all seemed fine. So I ventured downstairs and left them to establish their new home. I checked on them every 10 mins to begin with and then less frequently. And fingers crossed, they are all happy! The slept in the same nest over night too. I am just praying this stays positive!!!
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Post by gerby on Jan 19, 2016 1:00:36 GMT -8
Just thought I would update again. All is going well for my newly established trio. They are still sleeping together/on top of eachother and I have seen them all groom eachother. It is so nice to see Cerys enjoying the company for gerbils again! I am so pleased that I persevered and took time over the second bonding!
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