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Post by overmind1632 on Jun 15, 2007 18:30:29 GMT -8
Is Pine bedding really that bad and harmful to gerbils? Is it so bad that it should not be used in all cases?
Thanks
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Post by ohmylokix on Jun 15, 2007 18:33:13 GMT -8
I do NOT recommend using it at all. Its oils are harmful to rodents as well as humans. Try using aspen or Carefresh Ultra{not regular carefresh}.
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Post by vacampbell on Jun 16, 2007 1:16:03 GMT -8
To answer your question no it is not something that definately cannot be used.
I'd been using the woodshavings from pets at home long before I found this site and I've only found out that it is actually pine. apparently uk pine is ok for gerbils (not 100% sure) but as I said mine have had no problems at all and neither do friends gerbils. I have also bred on this substrate and all my pups have been very healthy. I know several user on this forum use it too with no trouble.
some people say why risk it but I was using it for years before I knew about it without any problems so either all of my gerbils have a resistance to it or the pine that is used (probably uk) is safe enough...
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Post by girlrazor on Jun 16, 2007 4:43:27 GMT -8
Depends on where the user in question is from. Personally, I wouldn't risk it.  There are plenty of cheap and cheaper substrates out there that don't carry this risk, so I don't see the appeal of pine. |
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Post by tweak on Jun 16, 2007 7:00:07 GMT -8
yup I agree with the 'why risk it'. When I first purchased my tank I used woodshavings but changed to aspen when I heard about any problems they might have from it. Their welfare comes first but I also think of it as 'do you have money for the vets on to cure them something that could have been prevented?' I mean there is money for any vetinary trips recquired but I'd rather not have to spend it on something that's my fault. This is only my opinion though, as vacampbell said, she's used it for years without any problems, so its impossible to have a clear cut yes or no answer to your question IF you live in the UK. Out of interest you say 'in all cases', are you refering to something in particular.
Also I found that they could construct tunnels better with the aspen plus a bit of timothy hay so I would never go back for several reasons.
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Gerbiee
Member
I <3 Gerbils
Posts: 432
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Post by Gerbiee on Jun 24, 2007 9:33:10 GMT -8
The UK pine shavings is actually spruce shavings which is another softwood which has phenols. The phenols are not as strong but they are still there and they are still harmful. Pine, cedar and other soft wood shavings have phenols that effect the respiratory systems of small animals. It has also been known to do the same to humans who work around it constintaly.
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Post by gerbilsalldaway on Jun 24, 2007 10:13:32 GMT -8
I was looking at my bale of shavings today and it doesn't say the type of wood they are made from, so I don't know what I use.
On the bags you can buy from pet shops - made for rodents! - it says 100% pine wood shavings!
Hasn't caused mine any harm . . .
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Post by sismith42 on Jun 24, 2007 11:18:24 GMT -8
The UK pine shavings is actually spruce shavings which is another softwood which has phenols. The phenols are not as strong but they are still there and they are still harmful. Pine, cedar and other soft wood shavings have phenols that effect the respiratory systems of small animals. It has also been known to do the same to humans who work around it constintaly. it's worth point out that not *all* humans who work with it constnatnly get problems, just like not *all* gerbils will be harmed by it (from runny noses to horrible death from an allergy attack). It's just an increase in risk. (like smoaking and lung cancer, emphasyma, etc.) What's best is to know what the risks are, then decide for yourself whether it's worth it or not. (me, I've no idea what type of woodshavings I use are. I do know that my girls were born on them, and if I see any sign of them having respitory problems, I'll swap shavings pronto. Until then, why risk changing from something that isn't apparently causing harm to an unknown?) |
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Post by me on Jun 24, 2007 11:23:33 GMT -8
I always used wood shavings from P@H till I found this site.
I've always used them for my previous gerbils and never had any problems. My gerbs are now on aspen and seem to love it so I'm keeping them on it.
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Post by ohmylokix on Jun 24, 2007 11:25:56 GMT -8
I know it also effects the liver.
My friend used pine with no ill effects, but wow did it give *me* a URI! Then I tried corncob which I hated, then carefresh{before the colors} which made me sick, and aspen. Aspen and Eco-Bedding are my favourite.
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caz
Member
Posts: 6,237
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Post by caz on Jun 25, 2007 1:59:52 GMT -8
At the end of the day it's personal choice whether or not to use it. There have been cases here in the UK where gerbils have been severely affected by pine and some have even died. However, there are also many members that have used (and still use) pine woodshavings with no problems at all. It seems a general consensus that the US pine is far stronger and would perhaps evoke symptoms in gerbils kept on it.
I personally use aspen as my girls love it and it makes brilliant tunnels! ;D
Caroline
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Post by overmind1632 on Jun 25, 2007 19:04:44 GMT -8
Right now after everything, I've started using aspen and my gerbil loves it. I still use some pin just so I can use it all up. The half of the tank he lives/sleeps in, I made it aspen and the other half with the wheel, food and water, I made pine. Once all my pine is used up, ill just stick with pure aspen.
After using both I think aspen is much better, and its also safer so its a win win.
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caz
Member
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Post by caz on Jun 26, 2007 12:46:48 GMT -8
To true! Glad your gerbil likes the aspen - it's great stuff! ;D
Caroline
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Post by vacampbell on Jun 26, 2007 12:51:06 GMT -8
it's worth point out that not *all* humans who work with it constnatnly get problems, just like not *all* gerbils will be harmed by it (from runny noses to horrible death from an allergy attack). It's just an increase in risk. (like smoaking and lung cancer, emphasyma, etc.) What's best is to know what the risks are, then decide for yourself whether it's worth it or not. (me, I've no idea what type of woodshavings I use are. I do know that my girls were born on them, and if I see any sign of them having respitory problems, I'll swap shavings pronto. Until then, why risk changing from something that isn't apparently causing harm to an unknown?) very well put, couldn't have said it better. I'd hate to be thought of as a bad pet owner just because i use pine (pets at home wood shaving) but my gerbils are all extremely healthy and have had no problems at all only had 2 trips to the vet, one after a declanning fight and a wound got infected and another because of my pregnant gerbil having a prolapse both of which have nothing to do with the fact that i use the pine wood shavings. |
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Post by gerbillover2000 on Jun 26, 2007 21:14:20 GMT -8
Huh. I'd never heard of this before. :/ I've had all of my gerbils on pine bedding (we buy those HUGE bag,s the little or medium ones just aren't enough) and all of them have reached life expectancy, even when our one had pups. I live in the US. I'll watch my babies close though. I'll have to pull up a couple of threads to show my mom too to convince her we need to switch our bedding, if that be the case.
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