My Special colored gerbs are new parents! Pls help

[jthai]

Hey Shanna,

FYI.... I found another Cream in Pauline's shop yesterday. Its identical to Solace.... it's her Brother! LOL too bad u missed it. Also, that petstore also has Ivory Cream and Ariel has that one. I picked it for her thinking it was REW cos it also had the "blue" ring......
So u are not right in saying that tank are all PEWs n REWs. Btw, all the white gerbs are offwhite colors due to the bedding... so no one will know the true colors untill it's being breed.

Hi Sandy,

Good tips..... I have paired Solace's brother with an Agouti Female.....
I'll keep u updated on what the pups they produced.

My PEW is aa chch G* pp and I have 2 blacks with ch n Pp.
I am pretty sure there's no Cchm gene here in Singapore.
So try as I might.... there is little chance of Siamese n Burmese.
However, I am trying em for DTW

My other project is also going for Grey Agouti. I am crossing my fingers on that one
Another one is slate. Can I confirm that the Slate eyes are brown and the pupil is red?

Thanks Again....

Wi'll take pics of my pups today..... btw... I am thinking red-eyed silver nutmeg as someone suggested in the forum becos some of the pups did looked like it had grey/silver ticking! anyways... we will have to keep guessing until I pair it up.

[jthai]

My Wild Guess.




Red Eyed Silver Nutmeg?


I spy 3 set of colors.... do u?

[jthai]

OMG I am sooo excited this morning!
Take a look n you will know why







Pls Advice on your suspicions
I think I am the only Gal in Singapore to have em!

[ashgerbil]

i have no idea what they are!! lol but they are extremely cute hehe
the one with the dark ears appears to be a CP of some kind (or not!?)
i say wait for more ticking to come out before making any decisions...

anyhoo, when i go over to Singapore this New Year, i'm taking them back with me!! lol ;D

[gerbil01]

Wow, congrats. It would be really cool if you were the first in Singapore to have them It is really hard to tell the color at this point without knowing their genes becuase white ticking gerbils are very hard to tell apart even when they are adults. But I would say the two white will have their parents rare colored eyes.

[jthai]

Hi All,

More updates....... maybe u can guess their colors now.... LOL
I might have a grey agouti instead cos the red-eyed silver nut boy, I think has a white belly.....
The pups are doing fine and are seemingly to keep changing the color of their coat!...

Even their daddy, Winter has gotten a different coat after moulting!.... LOL it's making me more puzzlled.

www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=107602&cdate=20060511&cimg=5
www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=107602&cdate=20060513&cimg=5

[sandy]

well you'll have to wait for your female agouti to have grandbabies to see (only if you are lucky) grey agouti's. Because grey agouti's have black eyes, P* and ruby eyed gerbils carry full recessives for ruby eyes and cannot produce black eyed pups when mated with another ruby eyed gerbil. Like this: Pp X Pp (black eyed parents that both carry the gene for ruby eyes)=PP, Pp, pP and pp (each gene seperates from the other one from the same parent and pairs up with both types of gene from the other parent).

pp x pp = all pp! The pups are all ruby eyed. If one of the parents carried Pp, then the parent would be black eyed because P is dominant and always produces black eyes.

I'm sorry it is so hard to understand. Try writing Pp and Pp on two seperate cards. That represents two black eyed parents that each carry a recessive gene for ruby eyes. Each gerbil parent can contribute only ONE letter to each pup and it is a coin toss to see which gene the baby gets. So cut the cards in half so each half carries a single letter. Then turn the cards over. Pick one letter randomly from the cut cards of each parent. There is a fifty-fifty chance that you will get P or p. Any pup getting P will have black eyes, either like this, PP or like this, Pp. And all pups that get pp will have ruby eyes. So all ruby eyed parents means all ruby eyed pups.

The same goes for all recessive genes. aa x aa parents means all aa pups, and so on, for each of the recessive types: aa, cc, dd, ee, gg, pp. Parents with full recessives can only have recessive pups. So if you want the kind of variety that will give you all the colour types, you have to make sure that there is at least one dominant gene present between the parents that carry lots of recessives. Like this: Aa x aa, or Pp x Pp. Otherwise your pups will be limited to only the fully recessive colours.

Say for example, look at two gene pairs, A and P. A is white belly, aa is self. P is black eyed, pp is ruby eyed. Assume all other genes are wild type (dominant).

An agouti (including grey agouti and colourpoint agouti) is A* P*, both sets dominant genes.
Black is aa P*, recessive a combined with dominant P.
Argente, white bellied with a ruby eye is A* pp, the A is dominant and the p is recessive.
Lilac, self (same colour all over and no white belly) with ruby eyes is aa pp, fully recessive.

Your dark ruby eyed parent gerbs are pp so all the pups are pp, ruby eyed. No black eyed pups can result from this pairing.

So what are the possible coat colour/eye colour genetics of your pair? Well, we know that there are lots ofrecessives.

Parents and pups are all ruby eyed. Dark ruby, but still ruby, so pp for everyone.

Lilac/Dove pups means that both parents carry at least one, if not two a recessives but a dominant gene for each of the other colours. So now we have a* C* D* E* G* pp.

The dove pup means you have at least one c recessive in the parents, so one or both of them is a* Cc(h) pp.

REW pups carry aa gg pp, so now we know each parent carries a g recessive.

To summarize, both parents must be pp and carry one a and one g at least. There has to be a c(h) recessive present.

One parent at least must be dominant in C, D, G and E since the presence of a lilac and dove gerbil shows that there is a dominant in all these genes.

So here's a possible scenario:

Winter could be an unusually light dove with g, as follows: aa Cc(h) DD EE Gg pp
Solace could be a spotted light cream: Aa Cc(h) DD EE gg pp Spsp.

Pop that into your online genetic calculator, and see what comes up:

gerbils.silvanon.com/gerbilcalculator/

You can see that with this gene combo there should be some argente and cream pups, eventually, if you keep breeding them. If you don't ever see any, then perhaps there is no A dominant gene present and both parents are aa. In that case, you will get pups that are:

REW
PEW
Dove
Lilac.

[jthai]

hmmm arh that's a great analysis Sandy! Thanks.
However, I am very sure that one of the pup has white n grey ticking like a grey agouti. just that it's lighter and it's belly is white. Is there anything such as the red-eyed silver agouti?

I have;
2x REW (cos there's blue ring round the eyes)
1x Dove(that's what u've spoted)
1xcream(with really dark choco eyes)
1xticking light grey (silver) and white (i thought red eyed silver nut....someone in the forum thinks one of the parent might be one.)

Look at this pic again...... any new insights?

[sandy]

Well I've seen pics of ticked Argentes with dark red eyes, so I think the light ticking might be associated with that really dark ruby eye colour and intense coat colours. Unfortunately ticking in ruby eyed gerbils is not really a desirable trait, and breeders try to avoid it. All the same, I'd be interested to see you do a test cross of one of your dark ruby eyes with an agouti, then breed the resulting pups together to see what comes of it. Who knows? You might have a completely new colour set there, but you'll never know if you only breed them with ruby eyed gerbs. You will see new colours, if there are any, in the grandchildren of the agouti female you are breeding Winter to.

[jthai]

Winter's moulted and his coat has totally changed.
He was dovey & beige colored before and now totally beiged.
He looks like a RESN now.

What do u think?


This is Winter.... my beloved 6mth old RESN male.


This is the pic of a RESN someone has in UK.

Now that I have a DEH pups I'll pair Winter up to test.
Winter + DEH = 100% DEH
Will confirm that Winter is indeed RESN.

[jthai]

Hi Again,
My pups coat have changed again.

www.dropshots.com/day.php?userid=107602&cdate=20060523&cimg=16
I am dying to find out what they are.

Winter n Solace have a 2nd litter... 6 pups but sadly, i passed on. so I am left with 5 now.
Let's see whether we have more colors......

[Shanawaz]

Congrats on the new litter ... I'd like to see if new colours appear in the litter .
If Winter produces DEHs , then hats off to you ...

[jthai]

Lol Shanna.......I am dreaming for the day to come!
But first... I need an adult DEH female.

LOL

My sincere Appologies to u all for the confusion.
Seems like u all caught the confusion bug from me.

Here's what. I have up load the pics that are as close as they are.
Winter n Solace have very dark ruby eyes. Why I say that are dark choco is because their eyes are easily mistaken as black.

Solace is offwhite when I got her.... so she does looks stain esp after having 2 litters. She delivered her 2nd litter (fathered by Winter) on the 21st May.
This is Solace when I first got her.

Winter recently moulted so his coat is new and unstained.
I dont think he is a dove cos I have 2 doves and he looks nothing like them.

This is Winter when I first got him.


This is Winter post-moult. He changed alot.....That's what surprised me!

Here are Their pups (1st Litter)

1. Ferra with tickings. Also has dark ruby eyes. I am thinking (Ruby Red Eyed silver Nutmeg) That my best guess.


Upclose to see the tickings.

2. Gamo has dark ruby eyes inherited from the parents.(can't decide on Lilac or Dove..... but I think neither.....lol Lt Lilac?)


3. Del the White gerb with Dark Ruby Eyes inherited from the parents. Note: His coat is offwhite....which means since at a very young age (2 weeks), as compared to his other 2 REWs siblings, his coat is less white.


4. Salva & Torre (Red Eyed Whites) These are what I can confirm. LOL


Note: The 2nd litter has 5 pups...... Will keep u posted on their colors.

IThis is Noug a Dove pup with Ee gene.
Just so u can compare his coat with Winter's kids.



I look forward to all your comments.

[sandy]

yes he does not look like a dove that's for sure. He could be RESN, which would be nice for you.

[jthai]

The 2nd Litter pups.

Winter n Solace's 2nd litter pups (1 week old)