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Post by ashgerbil on Jul 14, 2007 11:23:51 GMT -8
This is the old guide from 2007, for the new guide (from 2021), go to this thread.
Which Size Tank? Well you've got so far as deciding on a tank for your gerbils, but which size?! Making sure that your gerbil has enough space is really important. The tank is your gerbil's house, they'll eat, sleep, dig, chew and play in there and you have to have enough room. The Rough Guide To Tank Sizes(following adapted from this thread here) (please bear in mind, that when I say 'rule' I mean 'rule of thumb'. These are just guidelines people)The maximum rule (and the best rule) to go by is the '10 gallon per gerbil' rule. This basically means... One gerbil = 10 gallon tank Two gerbils = 20 gallon tank Three gerbils = 30 gallon tank Four gerbils = 40 gallon tank.... well, you get the picture The 10 gallon per gerbil rule means gerbils have a lot of space to enjoy and excercise in, which means happy and healthy gerbils You may be worried about the cost of tanks that are larger, but in fact, they don't cost that much more than the smaller size tanks, plus you can pick them up even cheaper if they're second hand. It's benefits all round. You don't want to go much higher than this rule, as territorial issues can occur in groups of 3 gerbils or more (and even in pairs if you're unlucky). For example, you don't wanna go putting a trio of gerbils in a 60 gallon tank, that's pretty much asking for trouble. The minimum rule is the '10 gallon for a single gerbil, then add 5 gallons for each extra gerbil'. This is basically the minimum tank sizes rule. Your gerbils will still be happy and healthy, but if you've got the space and want the best for your pet, then you should try and aim for the 10 gallon per gerbil rule Below is the minimum tank size guide There is the lengths of the sides of the tank (in inches and feet), the volumes in gallons (both UK and US) and the maximum no. of gerbils you can have in each size of tank. 18"x12"x12" (1.5 foot x 1 foot x 1 foot) 20"x10"x12" (US) = 9.343 253 228 gallon [UK] = 11.220 779 221 gallon [US, liquid] = 10 gallon (approx.) 1 gerbil24"x12"x12" (2 foot x 1 foot x 1 foot) = 12.457 670 971 gallon [UK] = 14.961 038 961 gallon [US, liquid] (aka US 15 gallon high) = 13 gallon (approx.) 2 gerbils*24"x15"x12" (2 foot x 1.25 foot x 1 foot) = 15.572 088 713 gallon [UK] = 18.701 298 701 gallon [US, liquid] = 15 gallon (approx.) 2 gerbils24"x16"x12" (2 foot x 1.3 foot x 1 foot) = 16.610 227 961 gallon [UK] = 19.948 051 948 gallon [US, liquid] (aka US 20 gallon high) = 17 gallon (approx.) 3 gerbils*24"x18"x12" (2 foot x 1.5 foot x 1 foot) = 18.686 506 456 gallon [UK] = 22.441 558 442 gallon [US, liquid] = 20 gallon (approx.) 3 gerbils36"x12"x12" (3 foot x 1 foot x 1 foot) = 18.686 506 456 gallon [UK] = 22.441 558 442 gallon [US, liquid] = 20 gallon (approx.) 3 gerbils36"x15"x12" (3 foot x 1.25 foot x 1 foot) 36"x16"x12" = 23.358 133 07 gallon [UK] = 28.051 948 052 gallon [US, liquid] (aka US 30 gallon high) = 25 gallon (approx.) 4 gerbils36"x18"x12" (3 foot x 1.5 foot x 1 foot) = 28.029 759 684 gallon [UK] = 33.662 337 662 gallon [US, liquid] (aka US '30-breeder') = 30 gallon (approx.) 5 gerbils*The gerbils are either very old or ill or very young (5-14 weeks), or the tank is to be used as temporary housing for this number of gerbils. The 10 Gallon Tank IssueIs a 10 gallon tank suitable housing for a pair of gerbils? Well the short answer is no, it isn't. Gerbils can't build proper burrows in 10 gallon tanks and they're a lot happier in a larger tank. The 10 gallon tank: fine for one gerbil, as a hospital tank, as a split tank, clean-out tank, split-tank (for intros) or temporary accomodation, and that is it. Sorry to keep drumming this into your heads, but it needs to be done! So remember, the rule is '10 gallons per gerbil' or '10 gallons for one gerbil and then another 5 gallons for each extra gerbil'. The rule is not '5 gallons per gerbil'__________________________________________ Thanks To...Danielle (shootingstar) for US tank sizes
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Post by Markpd on Nov 13, 2021 18:02:07 GMT -8
On 2nd thoughts, rather than edit ashgerbil's post (to something she may or may not agree to), I think that I/we should post the re-write (when it's done of course). I'll start editing her copied post for a new cage size FAQ. UNDER CONSTRUCTION
Which Size Tank?Well you've got so far as deciding on a tank for your gerbils, but which size?! Making sure that your gerbils* have enough space is really important. The tank is your gerbil's house, they'll eat, sleep, dig, chew and play in there and you have to have enough room. *Generally gerbils should not be kept alone, exceptions are gerbils too elderly for re-pairing, or more rarely a gerbil that's been proven not to get on with other gerbils. The Rough Guide To Tank Sizes(please bear in mind, that when we say 'rule' we mean 'rule of thumb'. These are just guidelines)The minimum rule to go by is the '10 gallon per gerbil' rule. This basically means... Two gerbils = 20 gallon tank Three gerbils = 30 gallon tank Four gerbils = 40 gallon tankThe 10 gallon per gerbil rule means gerbils have just adequate space to enjoy and exercise in. Your gerbils will still be happy and healthy, but if you've got the means, space and want the best for your pet, then you should try and aim for more than the 10 gallon per gerbil rule . You may be worried about the cost of larger tanks, but you can pick them up much cheaper if you buy them second hand. [new additions]
If you do have a tank at the smaller end of the scale, then it's important that you shouldn't divide the tank up for e.g a wheel or sandbath, but instead add a topper or a raised roof with a platform beneath it. This is to allow the full size of the tank for digging, whilst making sure that the wheel and sandbath etc don't get buried. Whilst it is particularly critical for smaller tanks, doing this for larger tanks still allows them a greater digging area. The topper/raised roof+platform don't need to be the full length of the tank, but it does need to be big enough to accommodate the various items of course. Gerbilariums While some of these are decent size, a common problem with these is that they don't allow a deep enough bedding (with a generally recommended minimum of 8"/20cm), sometimes this can be overcome by blocking off side vents or doors, and then accessing from the top, and providing more ventilation in the lid (or making a new lid).
Below is the minimum tank size guide There are the dimensions of the tank (in inches, feet and cm), the volumes in gallons (both UK and US) and the maximum no. of gerbils you can have in each size of tank. 2 gerbils
24"x18"x12" (2 foot x 1.5 foot x 1 foot) (~60 x 45 x 30cm) = 18.686 UK gallons = 22.441 US gallons
= 85 lts
20 gallon (approx.) 3 gerbils36"x18"x12" (3 foot x 1.5 foot x 1 foot) (~90 x 45 x 30cm) = 28.029 UK gallons = 33.662 US gallons
= 127.4 lts
30 gallon breeder (approx.) 4 gerbils 36"x18"x16" (3ft x 1.5 ft x 1.25 ft) (~90 x 45 x 40cm) = ~37.5 UK gallons
= ~45 US gallons = 170 lts
40 gallon breeder (approx.) Some typical bigger tank/cage sizes + volume and floor area
Germany - Min rec. 100x50x50cm (2-6 Gerbils) ........... (250 lts, 55 imp gall, 66 US gall, 5000 cm2) Swiss - Min req. 100x50x30 (2-5 Gerbils) ................... (150 lts, 33 imp gall, 40 US gall, 5000 cm2) Swiss - rec 120x60x60 ........................................... (432 lts, 95 imp gall, 114 US gall, 7200 cm2) 120x50x50 cm aquarium ......................................... (300 lts, 66 imp. gall, 79 US gall, 6000 cm2, 930 sq inches floor area) 150x60x60 cm aquarium ......................................... (540 lts, 119 imp. gall, 143 US gall, 9000 cm2 floor area) Ikea detolf 163x43x37 cm ext, int. 158x38x36(?) cm ... (216 lts, 47.5 imp gall, 57 US gall, 6004 cm2 floor area)
The 10 Gallon Tank IssueIs a 10 gallon tank suitable housing for gerbils? Well the short answer is no, it isn't. Gerbils can't build proper burrows in 10 gallon tanks and they're a lot happier in a larger tank. The 10 gallon tank: fine for a hospital tank, as a split tank, clean-out tank, split-tank (for intros) or temporary accommodation, and that is it.[bother with this?]
What happened to the max size 'rule'? This rule was in place because it was thought that bigger tanks could supposedly cause de-clanning between gerbils (hostilities which can lead to lethal fighting), however it would appear that idea was misplacing the cause of declanning. Many owners, breeders, rescue ctrs, and researchers in the UK, US, and Europe believe that large cages causing declanns is a myth. I did some research on it myself here. __________________________________________ Thanks To...Danielle (Shootingstar) for US tank sizes ************************************************** Lots of deleting atm, not much else yet! lol
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Post by Markpd on Nov 15, 2021 12:18:37 GMT -8
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Post by betty on Nov 16, 2021 4:08:53 GMT -8
What does WIP mean? Pretend you are speaking to a tech-deficient gerbil with all your lingo... I need a glossary!!!!
I love the idea of the tank dimensions for sure - really helpful. This was something I was always looking in to when I first started out. I didn't understand the whole gallons things - and most enclosures that weren't actual fish tanks were difficult to compare.
However personally, I would like to see more mention of levels/platforms. I mean, anything up to 2ft long without raised levels isn't going to be any good for keeping the food/water in the open for those who like to see these things (you only need to look on FB to see that people are taking a 2ft tank and sectioning off one side to keep the ground clear for the wheel, sandbath and food). Virtually defeating the point of the tank being 20 gallons (as I assume the gallons go right to the top) - as with the modifications they actually only have 10 gallons of actual digging tank. I think that encouraging taller tanks with shelving and levels will allow the gerbils to have the whole tank floor for digging and then raised areas for viewing and feeding etc.
I know a lot of people like to see them too - and without raised surfaces people never really get to see them at the top or interact with them as the digging is so great and deep. I have a friend with a 4ft tank for 2 gerbils and she says she only ever sees the food disappear - perfect for the gerbs - but most owners use their tanks differently for their own benefit. So, I think we should offer some advice on making the habitat use its full height (pointless waste of 'gallons' to have only ground level for 1ft+ wide of the tank - surely this 'loses'around a quarter of the total gallons available*) and increase interaction space without losing digging space.
Also, I like the idea of adding in about gerbilariums in general (as most people start out being told to buy one so will come to us here on the forum really happy with their purchase) as there is still a debate about whether the topper counts for gallon space. I think I mentioned elsewhere that I think we need to reconsider this - and it should put, say, in the context of scoring in an exam. For example a 20 gallon tank on its own with a ground level divide would be a 'Generally Acceptable'. The same tank with some internal levels and all dig would be a 'Good'. The same tank with even a small topper (for food, interation, sand bath and the wheel) would be a 'Distinction'.
*obviously we need to be aware that too large or too many shelves - and blanketing over the topper bars could reduce ventilation - but this is easily overcome and I think still trumps not having a topper at all.
Just a few thoughts. Great work so far btw Mark (do I have to always add the pd?)
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Post by Markpd on Nov 16, 2021 10:59:10 GMT -8
Heheh, that was a bit unfair of me because I'm not sure it's even regular 'net speak! WIP is Work In Progress, it's used a lot in garages for active jobs, but I'm sure elsewhere too. Good point about needing levels/platforms, especially in small tanks. Re ground level divider, would 1ft width being acceptable digging space though? Sounds tiny to me, but then my experience is very limited. Perhaps the min tank size should be 10gall/gerbil plus a topper? (so the full width of tank is available for digging). Yea I was wondering about Gerbilariums too, but do any of them have decent digging depth? I'm not familiar with any of them offhand to know that either way. No don't worry about the pd, that's just my initials Glossary? ROFL = roll over the floor laughing = LOL = laugh out loud (I'm sure you know that one). AFAIK = As far as I know AFAIR = As fas as I recall/remember WTH = what the hell? FWIW = For what it's worth YMMV = Your mileage may vary OTOH = On the other hand TLDR = Too long, didn't read (I think that's right) BTW = By the way
Have I missed any? (I rarely use many of them here though).
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Post by betty on Nov 27, 2021 7:42:12 GMT -8
Right - found the thread and bookmarked it - let's see if that helps me save time! Also I assume this thread (our comments) can be read by everyone when it returns to the 'right' place - so they can follow progress and comment in also? Or will we create a whole new thread when complete so we can sticky and lock it?
Heheh, that was a bit unfair of me because I'm not sure it's even regular 'net speak! ;) WIP is Work In Progress, it's used a lot in garages for active jobs, but I'm sure elsewhere too. Never heard it before anywhere - so thanks for explaining.
Good point about needing levels/platforms, especially in small tanks. Yes - I Think all tanks should have them regardless of overall ground space.
Re ground level divider, would 1ft width being acceptable digging space though? Sounds tiny to me, but then my experience is very limited. No - 1ft isn't ideal at all really (unless someone is really limited for space at home or is travelling) - that is why I don't like to see the divided tanks at all (under 2ft long) - especially when a raised level negates the need for flat 'bottom' space anyway. I would like to see this un-encouraged going forwards for the shorter-lengthed enclosures. Fine in Detolfs and 3ft+ ones of course.
Perhaps the min tank size should be 10gall/gerbil plus a topper? (so the full width of tank is available for digging). It doesn't have to be a full topper - although these do have their advantages - there just needs to be a way to raise the area needed to house flat things within - so that the digging area is as big as it can be for that individual enclosure I think.
Yea I was wondering about Gerbilariums too, but do any of them have decent digging depth? I'm not familiar with any of them offhand to know that either way. I am hoping to do an enclosure search for another project anyway - so will have a good look around when I do that. There aren't many gerbilariums with a deep dig currently - but it wasn't a comment about gerbilariums being too small off the bat. I was saying that a lot of people end up with one as a first enclosure so I would like to see us explaining how to make the best of them if they already have them (covered layers, wheel up high, interaction and taming, playpens, etc) so that people who have just spent the best part of a days wages on a cage and gerbils (and are currently very happy) don't feel like they can't still improve their housing even if they can't immediately afford/replace the gerbilarium for a giant tank. Suggestions for improving what people have already is just as - or more important - than suggesting they all immediately need to upgrade wouldn't you say?
No don't worry about the pd, that's just my initials :) Thank Mark
Glossary? :D (lifesaver...)
ROFL = roll over the floor laughing = (rofl) LOL = laugh out loud (I'm sure you know that one). AFAIK = As far as I know AFAIR = As far as I recall/remember WTH = what the hell? FWIW = For what it's worth YMMV = Your mileage may vary (ha ha ha) OTOH = On the other hand TLDR = Too long, didn't read (I think that's right) BTW = By the way
Have I missed any? I will always ask if I see a new one! (I rarely use many of them here though).
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Post by Markpd on Dec 1, 2021 11:37:11 GMT -8
I wasn't thinking we'd copy the whole thread, just the updated FAQ, so yea a new thread stuck and locked. Although I'm wondering if beforehand we should open up the cage size FAQ update for discussion to regular members, e.g Lilyanddaisy (to name one) has often good input on cage size discussions. What do you think? betty PipSqueak Re ground dividers, agreed, I'll compile a paragraph on that, and then see if what/if we need to modify it. Re toppers, fair point, I'll add a paragraph about too. Re Gerbilariums, yea I see, ideas to improve them, rather than just write them off. What do you mean by covered layers btw?
Oh, more acronyms! Quite widely used these, can't believe I forgot them! :- FYI = For Your Information
TBH = To Be Honest
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Post by PipSqueak on Dec 2, 2021 13:39:37 GMT -8
I definitely think that we should open the thread up to all the members. It can help us get more information from members and reduce the amount of work required. 😁
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Post by betty on Dec 3, 2021 4:41:15 GMT -8
Mark:
Those are the only two I actually know without having to work them out!!! LOL... (three now)
And by 'covered layers' I mean that we don't want to encourage gerbils walking on bars (if the topper is a full cage or the top of the existing tank is replaced with wide wire mesh or bars). Nobody should have to walk across open holes to get to food and water etc.
PipSqueak:
Yes, I do think that we should - but perhaps have a basic new post/thread in place that contains the updated info from Mark - then welcome an active discussion underneath it. We can then comment on/answer/encourage discussion and either add new info to the main info post or talk about the reasons why we haven't put something in that they were asking about. It is a great way to encourage learning and could also help dispel some old gerbil myths by nipping things (politely) in the bud at their source.
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Post by Markpd on Dec 3, 2021 12:05:22 GMT -8
What are the chances of that!? Got ya on covered layers, in other words, covered (meshed/wired) floors. Ok I'll start a new thread about it (rather than move this one) and paste in my partially done updated cage FAQ.
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Post by Markpd on Dec 28, 2021 7:27:58 GMT -8
I'm thinking of moving this old FAQ to the housing section (locked and not stickified) for 'historical' reference, e.g useful for comparison, (and I've linked it from the new FAQ, so atm members can't access it).
Although something I don't want to happen is for this thread to be high up in the Google search hits and compete with our new guide! Do you guys think if I rename the title to something like 'old tank guide' that'll put people off at least? (Hopefully the vague title will mean it'll be low on Google rankings?).
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Post by betty on Dec 28, 2021 8:36:48 GMT -8
Do the threads change url details when you move them to a new thread do you know? If they change url - it breaks the existing link and won't allow people to click through to them (a 404 error) - however if they stay as a the same URL (even with the name change) then you can't move them 'out' of the top rankings so to speak - however, I wonder if changing their actual name will show in the search anyway.
Changing the name to 'old thread' might put a few people off clicking it - but then the new one won't be anywhere near the top yet - as so they will all start clicking whatever is at place 2 or 3 instead - rather than stay on our own forum potentially. Also, as they all avoid it and click 2 and 3 etc, the forum post could lose its number 1 slot anyway and will drop out of the top pages. Hmm.
I will have a word with my other half as they do this kind of thing for a living. Unless there is a way around it - things only find their way to the top of the searches is by people opening them for the exact keyword phrases that brings them up in the first place - so only us lot going in and finding the new ones (and then clicking them - and then staying on them for several minutes minimum) can win over the search engine results. You can however (on most websites I believe) set up a divert setting (a 300 something code) that leaves the search engine findings as they are BUT redirects finders/clickers to the new page in place of the old one (so you save your number 1 ranking for the 'answer' but the finders only read the new stuff either way).
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Post by Markpd on Dec 28, 2021 10:13:17 GMT -8
The url stays the same (unique number). I did a Google search earlier to try to bring this thread up. It didn't show up, because (I believe) it's locked up in the mod forum . But atm neither is the new guide showing! I know very little about how search engines rank listings, so interesting to know, and if your other 1/2 can add more as a pro about it, all the better
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Post by betty on Dec 28, 2021 11:14:02 GMT -8
They said that it can depend on a number of factors - but it would be easiest and most SEO friendly to simply unlock the old thread and put in a new comment/sentence at the start of this old thread - linking to and explaining to go to the new thread.
That way - nothing changes SEO-wise and it keeps its ranking at the top of whereever it is. Forum ranking are a bit fickle anyway as sometimes the whole forum gets the ranking rather than the individual threads so it can be a bit hit and miss.
However, leaving the old page there is one of the safest bets for any searchable details - so it keeps everything as it is - including the exact same URL. Then just layer on or affix your new facts on to that existing one - everyones a winner.
The new page will soon start to grow it's own rankings too - so either way it is a win win.
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Post by Markpd on Dec 28, 2021 11:52:47 GMT -8
Good idea! Will do that
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