New to gerbils--sick/injured gerbil?

[jennem]

Short story: bicker-y gerbils who may be pushing each other for dominance but still sleep/groom together. Cage was relocated three times in a two-week period to entirely different houses. Black has injured paw. Beige with ruby eyes has injured front right paw with small scab, small scab on nose, half-closed eyes, occasionally hunching over in a corner half-asleep, eating, drinking, and playing normally. No access to vet for 4 days.

Long story:

My daughter was given 2 female gerbils for Christmas. Midnight is black, small, with black eyes. Goldy is tan, larger, dark red eyes. We know they aren't from the same litter, but have no clue as to age etc.

My daughter stayed at her grandparents with the gerbils for a full week, so I had no chance to observe them. They came home via a long car ride yesterday.

When I opened up the cage, I noticed that BOTH gerbils had injuries to their right front paws. Midnight is using the paw a little to hold the food, but not to walk or climb or run on the wheel. Other than that, Midnight seems just fine.

Goldy, on the other hand, has a tiny scab on the injured paw and isn't using it at all. She has a tiny scab on her nose. And more worrying, her eyes are closed or half-closed almost all of the time. I saw one small drop of that red fluid at one corner, but other than that I'm not seeing any weeping to her eyes or nose. She is grooming her face a good bit. She is eating normally--if I give them oatmeal, especially, she goes nuts and chows down--and I've also seen her drinking. She goes on the wheel periodically, chews her toilet paper tube, etc. All in all, I'd say her behavior seems fine except for the leg, the half-closed eyes, and the way she sometimes sits hunched over in a corner for a few minutes, seemingly asleep but with her front paws in a sort of "prayer" position instead of lying down. (Is her breathing rapid? Who knows? How rapidly do gerbils breathe?)

The two do seem to be a bit "bicker-y" with each other, but I haven't seen full-on fighting or any biting. They sleep together in one box, and I saw Goldy grooming Midnight yesterday. Midnight is dominant, but I've also seen Goldy grooming her belly/underside right next to Midnight, which I don't think she'd do if she were scared. They touch/nibble faces fairly often--or maybe it's that fighting/head-pushing? How do you tell? But it's followed by either going to sleep together or sharing food!

Getting to a small-animal vet on this holiday weekend is utterly impossible. But I'm frantic because this is my 7-year-old's new pet.

ALL of this could have been present for the past week--my parents are NOT observant. Or I guess they could have been injured during the car trip. There were NO new injuries to either since they came back at noon yesterday. But why the half-closed eyes? I completely cleaned and changed the cage yesterday, with Carefresh bedding, but haven't seen an improvement.

[doug]

The scabs would indicate that the injuries may not be a new thing but maybe before they were purchased. I would ask the age but since you are new to gerbils the answer would be a guess. Some things you can do to help them out, extra protein, such as a bit of hard boiled egg, try extra sunflower seeds as well and some plain quaker oats wouldn't be bad either.

If possible take some pics, that would help us.

Doug

[jennem]

She is eating tons of plain oats. It's her favorite. Just had quite a lot of it this morning. She is also eating seeds out of the food bowl--I don't see any signs of appetite loss. Poop appears normal, as she conveniently went on top of her house where it was visible.

I will try to take pics of her but she is sleeping in the box with the other gerbil right now. I don't want to stress her more by moving it.

I know that gerbils can break their front legs fairly easily--and the cages were moved a lot--so that's not a huge concern long term (although I'm sad about it). My primary concerns are her half-closed eyes, and the occasional "sitting hunched over with eyes closed right outside the nest or in a corner." Could that be from pain from the leg? Or stress from the move? Or the fact that she's naturally a ruby-eyed gerbil?

Or do I need to worry about illness? I can get ornocycline no problem--pet store around the corner.

[johanne]

Pictures would certainly help. From your description, there may or may not be anything terribly wrong beyond stress. Leg injuries normally heal just fine without treatment. They have been under a lot of stress, so I think a stress response is normal. They're not feeling entirely secure in their surroundings, so Goldy's behaviour may be just that. The red in the eye is also normal, typically a stress response. The nose could be a result of living in an inappropriate cage, but keep an eye on it in case it's allergies. I would keep them warm and leave them alone for the most part for now to help them adjust to all the changes and recover.

A balanced diet high in protein as Doug suggested is a good idea to help them recover also. Too many oats do not constitute a balanced diet, so keep that in mind. Oats are low in protein. Great in small quantities, but not too large a part of a gerbil's diet.

[jennem]

They seem to want to spend a lot of time in their box right now so I got some very quick shots. They were not very friendly to each other the first day here, so I'm happy they now want to stay together all the time, even if it's in their box. The black one periodically thumps, so they are not really relaxed.

In one, they are eating oats together...sorry, will not overload them on oats, will try some more protein, but I needed to lure them up to try to get a clear photo. It's fuzzy because there is some tape residue on the outside of the glass from when they were being moved.

The others are just to show the eyes. Her fur is a light beige with black at the roots, her eyes are naturally a very dark red.
The scab on the right side of the nose and on the right leg are so tiny it's hard to photograph. Couldn't get a clear shot of the injured leg anyway--she kept turning around. As soon as they ate the oats they ran right back in so no right side shots...and that's where the injuries are...maybe later.

[cakemix]

AHHH what sweetie pies!!!!!!

I'm new to gerbils but just nursed a very sick abused gerbil. Diego lost an eye and also toes. His story and pictures are on this site,

I found at first his eye (good one) was sort of half closed. We know he was in terrible pain. But he was also extremely swollen about the head.

I do know about other animals and stress. The moving around and such would just throw them off. Even diet wise.

If it's scabbed and your not seeing seeping or blood I wouldn't worry and just try to make them comfortable. But a vet check if your worried never hurts either.

[johanne]

Poor Goldy does seem to be in bad shape. I can't tell about Midnight from the pic. The are very stressed out. What you want to do right now is give them really deep bedding, a good 6 inches anyway, so they can burrow and feel safe, secure and warm as they recover. Make sure they are in a warm place. You can use a lamp or hot water bottle or something on one side of their tank so they can get extra warmth if they need it.

[hottytoddy]

When you describe them as bickery, this probably isn't actual fighting.

An actual gerbil fight typically does draw blood and involves biting one another usually near the base of the tail or the neck.

Gerbils will play "wrestle" with one another.

The injuries sound as if they are older (since they are scabbed) and may be from other gerbils at the store they are purchased from.

All of the moving is not good on them. I would move them to an area of the house that does not have a lot of traffic and observe them every day. Make sure that they are kept warm and away from drafts.

[jennem]

Thanks. They don't seem to like a lot of bedding--they kick it out. Last night I gave them a shallow, but very long cardboard box with a hole in the side to hide in. They love it. They can get very far back from the opening. After sleeping in it all day, Goldy does seem better. Much more active, and still quite hungry--digging through the bedding for food, especially sunflower seeds and those little pellets.

I've tried to keep them away from traffic, but my daughter got in there today and opened up the cage. Both Goldy and Midnight were quite fearlessly climbing her hand etc. Did not seem upset or worried and actually seemed to like it.

Midnight's damaged arm already looks better. Not as retracted into her body. No concerns about that one. She also seems larger than last week. I think she was quite young.

Goldy's arm is still useless, but she seems capable of holding her food and eating with the one arm. She eats A LOT. Her eyes are still squinty but she doesn't have any gunk anymore and isn't fully closing them as often. And she's not hunching outside the nest anymore. She might be hunching inside it--I can't see into it--but at least she's inside and usually with Midnight which I think is a better sign than huddling outside in a corner? She's moving more quickly and has more of that "bounce" I associate with gerbils. Lots of frantic digging and hopping in and out of the wheel, the food bowl etc.

Question...on top of their (white cardboard) nesting box, I saw a typical solid gerbil poop in a drop of urine-like liquid. NOT diarrhea--definitely solid poop surrounded with a drop of mostly clear, but very faintly greenish liquid. (They ate spinach yesterday.) No clue from which gerbil. Did she poop and urinate at the same time or is this some sort of bad digestive thing? I picked Goldy up and looked at her rear, it didn't look wet.

[jennem]

She looks more alert. She actually is using the paw a little--she was scrabbling frantically at the front corner and I noticed she was moving it along with the other, although not as well and not putting any pressure on it.

You can see it's quite swollen though. But I don't see broken skin or any more redness than the "normal" paw.

Her eyes seem much better, and her posture. BUT now she has that red gunky bloody-looking nose. Which I couldn't photograph.

Allergies? What do I do about allergies? She has brand-new CareFresh bedding. The old bedding was quite dusty and yucky but was removed yesterday...can it take a while? The nose could have been "bloody" yesterday, because of her coloration it's hard to see and this is the first time I've picked her up and looked very closely.

So...moving normally, eating normally, drinking normally, nesting/sleeping normally, eyes slightly closed/swollen/red but less so than yesterday, nose with that "bloody" stuff, damaged swollen leg with some use to it. Dusty cage completely cleaned out yesterday. What now?

[jennem]

Apparently my parents gave the gerbils some pieces of firewood to chew on, which were basically reduced to sawdust at the bottom of the tank by the time I cleaned it out yesterday. Could those be the cause of the eye/nose problem? Having been removed 24 hours ago, would it have cleared up by now if that was the reason? As I said, the eyes are a bit better and the "bloody" nose may or may not have been there yesterday...only visible when I picked her up and looked at it from below today. It's scabby, not wet.

I read red-eyed gerbils are more prone to this. Should I discard the CareFresh and try something else (someone suggested shredded printer paper), or give it another 1-2 days? Neosporin on the nose?

I hate to do ANYTHING, as she is finally seeming happier...and I've read that the same sort of nasal dermatitis can occur from stress, as from allergies...it seems clear that's what it is from photos I've seen--sore nose, sore eyes, bleeding, ulceration= nasal dermatitis from allergies OR stress.

Can I wait until Monday to switch them to eco-bedding and give them a nice calm weekend in the carefresh that already smells like them? Or is it urgent?

[ohmylokix]

NO neosporin. It will impede breathing, and when ingested, can shut down the kidneys.

I'd try switching to Ecobedding. It's hypoallergenic and tunnel-able.

[doug]

the second batch of pics make the gerbil look better, stay with a higher protein diet for several days to get weight on them, the look like old gerbils to me but that is probably just because of the low weight and general condition, if they continue to eat well then just make sure they look better each day.

Doug

[jennem]

The black one is getting bigger. The gold one is eating like a horse. Will try some hard-boiled egg.

[hottytoddy]

Kicking bedding out doesn't mean they don't like it. It is the result of them digging and means quite the opposite.

I prefer putting gerbils in aquariums so that I don't have to vacuum daily. They ALL love more bedding to dig in. It is a natural response of gerbils!