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Post by jennem on Jan 1, 2011 9:48:49 GMT -8
Goldy is about the same this morning. Eyes still frequently at half-mast but no red tears around them. "Bloody" nose a bit better--just a small crust now. No new wounds. Fur a little rumpled. Has not gained weight that I can see. Eating ok...was picking out and eating the square nugget things out of the food bowl. Neither will eat the hard-boiled eggs or nuts--the only high-protein food either of them seems to like is sunflower seeds, and I'm out, so I will get some more today. Might still be hunching/huddling/panting, but if so is doing it inside the box with Midnight where I can't see. They rarely come out alone for more than a minute, they seem to prefer to be in or out together. Mostly in. They like to stay in the box. They've chewed their own exits/entrances and seem to find it secure.
The only activity I did witness outside the box this AM is that she went crazy chewing up a cardboard egg carton section, then groomed Midnight, then groomed her own belly, then ate some nuggets, then went back into the box with Midnight.
Her paw, unfortunately, looks a bit worse. The scab is gone but there is now a dark pink, almost raw area in the same spot. Not really bloody, not looking infected, just very pink/shiny/sore-looking. I think she chewed the scab off--maybe it was itchy? I have a pre-mixed oral antibiotic for them, which I've not yet given, but I did drip a bit of it on the wound (pet store said it was OK to do that, might not help but possibly could, and wouldn't hurt.)
The only vet that sees small animals near me is away for the week, so I think I have to handle this on my own. I'm guessing if she's sick/infected, that length of time will be live or die time.
Three questions:
1) They do not have EcoBedding at my local pet store and I can't get to another one until Monday. Until then, should I stick with the CareFresh, use shredded office paper/shredded paper towel/toilet tissue, or get corn cob? I know the corn cob is less allergenic, but would it be too rough on the injured paw? I don't mind changing the cage daily if need be.
2) She climbed on top of her (white) box to defecate while I was watching. Same as yesterday--one absolutely normal solid poop in the middle of a big droplet of clear colorless urine-like liquid. Is this a digestive problem, or does she just urinate/defecate simultaneously?
3) I've noted her scratching her belly/flanks and behind her ears briefly but fairly frequently. I'd suspect mites but the other gerbil isn't affected and they've been together for 2 weeks. And I saw no evidence of them when I inspected her fur/did the paper towel wrap thing. Can that be an allergy sign along with the eyes and nose? I know the porphyrin is itchy, but not sure why she'd be scratching behind her ears (not in them) or her flanks too. No wounds around the ears, no visible body mites, and ear mites wouldn't make her scratch her flanks. No head shaking/head tilting.
I'm so torn between trying to help if it's allergies/illness, and leaving her alone if it's stress!
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doug
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Post by doug on Jan 1, 2011 10:05:00 GMT -8
In general gerbils recovering from injuries just fine without any assistance, it sounds as if the wound is healing normally since it is normal for the scap to come off at some point.
If you see no new injuries than just continue to monitor.
1) It sounds as if they are stable so just leave it as is for now, corncob molds easily. 2) From what you described it sounds normal. 3) Scratching and grooming is normal, if it was an allergy issue you would see the nose get continually worse, a scab is an indicator it is on the healing path.
Doug
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Post by johanne on Jan 1, 2011 11:29:23 GMT -8
Sounds like they're getting better. Just to add to the good advice already given, they mostly need peace and quiet to complete their recovery at this point, not more change in their lives.
Some more bedding will encourage them to come out of their box more and behave like normal gerbils. Moving the bedding around is what gerbils do, as was mentioned. A choice of healthy, high protein and fat foods will help put on weight and promote recovery. If you give them lots of variety, they should find things they like. They might even eat a bit of dog or cat food if you have some on hand, but you never know. Definitely lots of sunflower seeds and a variety of grains should be available at all times.
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Post by jennem on Jan 2, 2011 15:06:11 GMT -8
Thank you so much all! They are doing just great. I picked up Goldy this morning and gave her a thorough check. No wounds at all under her fur, and the scab fell off her upper nose. Still a rim of scabbing or porphyrin along the right side of her nose, but she's unable to groom that side due to the injured paw. No redness around the eyes. Overall her fur seems brighter and fluffier. The half-closed eye thing I'm starting to think is stress. I'll walk in the room and she'll look fine...a moment later she's hunched with her eyes closed. Now, she's not shy when I put my hand in the cage--she's quite friendly and actually seems to enjoy it when we open the cage, she never hides but climbs on us. I think she has poor eyesight and gets stressed by movement outside of the tank. Her leg is improving. It's the right front, you can see it in the photo below touching Midnight. It's overall pink/shiny/rumpled, like the skin under a scab or burn, but there is no blood and no broken areas of skin. It went from being 3x the size of the other, to 2x. They are going through cardboard egg carton sections like crazy. They chewed away part of their nest box, so I can now see that they sleep with their heads on top of each other, and both groom each other in there. They try to run on the wheel at the same time which is hysterical...2 gerbils, 6 legs, 1 wheel. They do like dry cat food in addition to the sunflower seeds and dry oatmeal, plus their regular food. gave them a lot more bedding. That, along with the paper napkins and cardboard they enjoy shredding, has given them quite a bounty of burrowing opportunities. I'm very hopeful!
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Post by johanne on Jan 2, 2011 16:15:55 GMT -8
They're looking SOOOOO much better! You have done a fabulous job of giving them everything they need for a speedy recovery ;D Midnight looks lovely, sleek and shiny. Goldy is almost there too. Soon enough you may not be able to tell which paws were injured It's so nice to see how well they're doing so quickly. Gerbils have amazing powers of recuperation.
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Post by jennem on Jan 2, 2011 16:38:56 GMT -8
So happy to hear it! I've been working on it almost non-stop, and my husband thinks I'm nuts, but seriously, it's two living creatures I took responsibility for!
Another thing I realized was that at the grandparents' house they were in a room with a constantly-burning woodstove. The smoke may also have been an issue for Goldy. I doubt it's the bedding or she wouldn't be improving so quickly.
Two questions:
1) How long should I wait before changing bedding? I've only ever had hamsters, not gerbils, so I'm not sure of the correct frequency for gerbils, for optimal health and security.
2) (Never mind, see two posts later, just leaving the question for reference purposes.) I had taken the opportunity to examine each of them pretty thoroughly this AM and I have a scent gland question. Both are very smooth, very orange-y, look exactly like the "healthy" photos. But in both, the entire area is very slightly raised, or rather there is a very slight squishy "bump" that exactly matches the area of the bald spot. Midnight's gland area is smaller, and consequently the "bump" is flatter. Goldy's is larger in diameter, and the "bump" is more palpable as well. The skin does not look at all like any of the various "tumor" photos on this site. It feels like the orange skin is the top of a squishy gland that continues underneath--almost like feeling a gland in your neck, but much softer and flatter. Goldy is much larger than Midnight, is still a bit underweight, is dominant, and has been marking quite a bit (including marking Midnight). So to me it makes sense that you can feel this bubble a little in Midnight and more in Goldy. This is NOTHING I would ever have noticed if I hadn't been pushing their fur back all over looking for wounds. Looking at the glands, they look exactly like the "healthy" photos, it was only when stroking back the fur that I realized I could feel a slight rise in the area. Is this normal?
They are crazy active tonight.
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Post by hottytoddy on Jan 2, 2011 18:11:01 GMT -8
1) I take out most of the bedding every week, and I clean the tank every two weeks. Of course, I take out their toys any time there is poop on them (the wheel and their jar come out every three days) and change the water bottle every two days. It really depends on the bedding that you use. Definitely change it if it starts to stink. (I have had to after two days before because they hid a piece of apple that I had given them.
2) I have only had a few scent gland problems, so I will let someone else answer that.
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Post by jennem on Jan 2, 2011 18:22:08 GMT -8
Goldy just used her broken arm to hold a piece of walnut while eating it, for the first time, yay! Eyes fully open almost all day, not one incidence of squinting except for my first "visit" to the room early this morning.
I'm canceling the scent gland question. I was googling and found several gerbil health site that said "This should normally be flat and dry although you can feel the scent gland as a small flat lump" and similar descriptions. That describes it exactly, a small flat lump beneath the skin, but flat and smooth and dry on the surface. Not red, raised, pimply, rough, scabby, warty, or anything else like that. I was just wondering if it's normal to be able to feel the gland beneath the skin a bit, and apparently it is.
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Post by johanne on Jan 2, 2011 22:26:13 GMT -8
Sounds like you've got it pretty much figured out.
As mentioned, how often you change the bedding depends on the type of bedding and its depth. Basic rule of thumb is, if it looks dirty or smells bad, it needs changed. Deeper bedding needs to be changed less often, and depending on the type of bedding can go for quite a while (think weeks, not days). When you do change it, keep some of the old bedding in with the new. It'll be less stressful and lessens potential for fighting. Clean their toys on a different day from the one you change their bedding. Again, clean only if dirty. They like to have their scent on their things. Too much cleaning will only stress them.
And you figured out the scent gland too. The more dominant the gerbil, the bigger the scent gland.
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doug
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Post by doug on Jan 2, 2011 22:52:36 GMT -8
A large scent gland does not mean a dominant gerbil or "more dominant gerbil".
Doug
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Post by cakemix on Jan 3, 2011 6:37:42 GMT -8
AHHH they look so comfy in their new home! I am partial to the black one! I just love the shine of black fur (I have a black dog )
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Post by jennem on Jan 3, 2011 6:44:15 GMT -8
Wow what a difference a day makes! I woke up this morning to a bright-eyed fat chunkalunk of gerbil. Time to lay off all those walnuts! Can't believe how fast she gained weight!
It's nice to see her sitting with that sort of rounded oval shape that Midnight has always had, rather than looking so skinny. She's also looking blonder--can't see the dark undercoat anymore--and she's become very very active. Overall she just looks so much younger. And excited to see me, which is odd considering all the inspecting etc. I've had to do! In the wheel this morning she put weight on the injured leg a few times as well.
Final question (I hope): because of the cold weather, our windows have thermal curtains that also block out the light. So no sunlight without drafts. Is it OK for them to stay in a dim environment all day while we're at work, or should we leave a lamp on for them to mimic natural light patterns?
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Post by hottytoddy on Jan 3, 2011 9:06:51 GMT -8
I would try to have a natural light pattern for them.
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Post by johanne on Jan 3, 2011 10:20:08 GMT -8
A large scent gland does not mean a dominant gerbil or "more dominant gerbil". Doug See "Population growth and social structure of confined colonies of mongolian gerbils: Scent gland size and marking behaviour as indices of social status" Dr. Heidi H. Swanson, M. Ruth Lockley (2006) Also, Peter Maas www.petermaas.nl/gerbils/sexinggerbils.htm: "The scent gland (a small patch of bearskin just above their navel) is in males much larger, than in females. Dominant Mongolian gerbil, both males and females, have a larger scent gland than the gerbils that are lower in hierarchy. So if you have two females, the dominant female will have the largest scent gland, don't confuse this female with a male."
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Post by jennem on Jan 3, 2011 10:22:15 GMT -8
I would try to have a natural light pattern for them. Great, I'll put in a lamp with a broad-spectrum bulb in there and make sure to turn it on whenever it's too chilly to open the curtains.
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