Mud Pony
Member
We can only be, what we give ourselves the power to be!
Posts: 284
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Post by Mud Pony on Oct 30, 2005 20:59:30 GMT -8
Hey thats a great idea for making another level, gonna try that one.
10 is absolute minimum foir me. I have a 30 gall(us) and 2 ten gallons that I use for my breeding pairs until the pups get older then I add a metal 'topper' to them. it's like another ten gallon tank on top but it's metal and adds 3 extra levels. Got it at petsmart was a present, but they are like 50 US dollars.
On another 10 gall, I used a coupl eof critter trails ( critter trail one & the mini) and linked them together with the tunnels and the gerbils LOVE it, actually they moved thier nest & everything they rarely use the tank anymore.
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Post by Jes on Oct 30, 2005 22:36:27 GMT -8
10 gallon min. Setup is more important than tank size. It annoys me when people have like nothing in the tanks but 1 inch of shavings, a wheel and a small box. No point in having a 50 gallon long tank just for floor space.. gerbils aren't Olympic Runners that like to run back and forth for fun all day. Newsflash: They jump, climb and dig too.
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Mud Pony
Member
We can only be, what we give ourselves the power to be!
Posts: 284
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Post by Mud Pony on Oct 31, 2005 9:36:01 GMT -8
yeah, you gotta have fun stuff for them to do. A good safe wheel, tunnels or things to crawl in & hide, chewey stuff & all the fixins. I like to try & mimic the wild as much as is feasable in the tanks. Gerbils seem to behappier & I think they they have better behaviors when this occurs...
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Post by AndreaS15 on Oct 31, 2005 11:19:04 GMT -8
I got a vase for flowers at the dollar store a couple weeks back, and the gerbies love to play in it. I swear the dollar store is my favorite place to shop for gerbils toys. I get them wooden spoons, and ceramic things to play in, it works great. I also buy them paper plates (100 for $1) this works out great since i have not enough toilet paper rolls for the # of gerbils I have.
I made a neat topper out of plexiglass, but unfortunetly the glue I used didn't hold, so when i move I will have to rebuild it.
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Post by sandy on Oct 31, 2005 16:30:53 GMT -8
Well, I have read that offering a clan too much space invites them to set up seperate territories and you can have a problem with declanning. There is less declanning when your gerbils are "forced" to mingle their scents more. I like to have two or three gerbils in a 10 gallon tank but depending on their activity level, some of my elderlies are just as happy in a hamster-size cage as in a tank. It is better for them to have a tank though, as it gives them more exercise.
I have seen terrible pet shop crowding (like, six or seven in a hamster cage) and even those gerbils didn't seem too put out by it--gerbils must have a great ability to cope with whatever space they are given. Has anyone had experience of gerbil clans declanning from having too much space?
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Mud Pony
Member
We can only be, what we give ourselves the power to be!
Posts: 284
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Post by Mud Pony on Oct 31, 2005 20:18:17 GMT -8
so far i have not had an issue. In the beginning of my gerbil ownership I did have trio of 2males & 1 female that declanned but I think that was due to pairing & not space. they were in a 30 gallon, simple set up.
i have had pairs declan that were in 10 gallons.
i may be lucky only because i have pairs in my 10 gallon add on's with babies. then when weaned I remove the babies and the pairs go back to just a 10 gallon simple tank before giving burth to thier next litter. so that may have something to do with it, not sure.
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Post by doomgerbiluk on Nov 1, 2005 2:03:52 GMT -8
Not from too much space no. It's too complex a home that causes this problem. For instance a colony in a multi-chambered environment such as a few tanks joined together. That doesn't mean these environments are 'wrong', just that those using them need to watch for signs of individual or small group territories forming. Large colonies are more likely to develop 'personality' clashes though so a larger colony must be more at risk of declanning anyway.
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Post by AndreaS15 on Nov 1, 2005 9:25:08 GMT -8
I keep 3 young males in two 10g tanks conected with tubes. The only time I saw this territorial behaviour was when one claimed a new toy. When I took that toy out, I never had another problem.
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Post by sandy on Nov 1, 2005 10:02:13 GMT -8
I wonder if it has to do with the natural habitat in Mongolia. It is a desert, so the surface is not that complex but they can burrow and indeed, given the severity of the winters, MUST burrow to survive. I imagine in winter there must be quite a bit of crowding in the burrow systems and the gerbils have to stay close together to keep warm. They probably hoard food and stay put cuddled close in the burrows for extended periods of time in winter months, then in summer, they can range wide and indeed benefit from ranging far in that they will find more food that way. This would account for the territoriality (whew, tongue twister) emerging when they have a wider range because when they have the freedom to roam, they want to keep the resources to themselves or at least for their own clan. But when they are in crowded winter quarters, fighting all the time would definitely take away any survival advantages so sociable behaviour must be favoured. I've also noticed that gerbils introduce faster when the temperatures are cold, and declan more often in summer time when temps are warm. "It's too hot--get away from me!" It reminds me of my kids.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Nov 4, 2005 7:15:23 GMT -8
An interesting article:
G. Agren, Zhou Q & Zhong W. 1989. Ecology and social behaviour of Mongolian gerbils, Meriones unguiculatus, at Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia, China. Animal Behaviour, 37, 11-27.
Abstract. Observations were made of social and territorial behaviour in a wild high-density population of Mongolian gerbils. The social units were multi-male, multi-female age-structured groups, judged to be families. The operational sex ratio was male biased. Group size varied from two to about 17 animals. Non- overlapping territories were defined by a clustered distribution of burrows, by common areas of activity of group members, and by chases across border zones between the areas used by each group. Territory size was correlated with group size, and ranged from 325 to 1550 m2. Within groups, differential social status was indicated by behaviour patterns of dominant as well as subordinate character. Larger individuals dominated smaller ones, and males usually dominated females. Males ranged more widely and they were generally more active than females. The rate of sexual maturation in subadults varied according to group composition. Mainly the largest reproductively active males defended the territories by chasing, and also by marking along borders. An increased marking rate was observed in reproductively active males and females during oestrus. Three females were observed to copulate, two with more than one male. One female preferentially copulated with a neighbouring male. The functions of territorial defence, marking behaviour and promiscuous mating are discussed, and some cross-species comparisons are made. The present observations are to a large extent compatible with the results of relevant laboratory and seminatural studies.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Nov 4, 2005 7:17:10 GMT -8
Social OrganisationBurrows took the form either of 10-20 irregularly spaced entrances that were likely to form a single burrow system or of a more shallow burrow with 1-3 entrances located some distance from the main burrow. The manner in which the same gerbils were repeatedly trapped in the same areas associated with burrow entrances allowed the social groupings of the gerbils to be identified. By observing that the borders of the ranges were marked by chasing behaviour between rival adults (mainly males) it was possible to identify the territory belonging to each social group. Chasing and scent marking were the main forms of territorial behaviour.The territory belonging to each group ranged from 325 to 1550m2 depending on group size, food availability and most importantly the body weight of the largest male gerbil.Groups consisted of up to 17 individuals. A typical group had on adult male and an adult female living with up to 3 litters of offspring.Within the territory of each group the dominant male was the only gerbil the usually used anything like the whole area. Juveniles rarely strayed far from the burrow entrances and on average females ranged over a much smaller area than comparable males. Where there was no dominant male the younger males ranged over a large area. Source: www.gerbils.co.uk/gerbils/wild.htmTaken from: G. Agren, Zhou Q & Zhong W. 1989. Ecology and social behaviour of Mongolian gerbils, Meriones unguiculatus, at Xilinhot, Inner Mongolia, China. Animal Behaviour, 37, 11-27.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Nov 4, 2005 7:18:55 GMT -8
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