Advice on a science fair

[leafwhisp]

So, my school is having a science fair. I thought that I would do something with vision and seeing, either with people or with gerbils. Then I thought can gerbils see in color? Are there any ways a kid could test this? I found someone saying to try using different colored boxes, put food in one and see if eventually the gerbil would learn that the box with that color had food. Would the gerbil just smell the food and not have anything to do with seeing?

If anyone could give advice, like, right away that would be great.
I am in middle school, not high school, so keep that in mind.

[AJ]

You could make a Y shaped bit, and put color on one side, and white on the other, and then swap the color and the white, and see if they still stand by their previous choice.

[leafwhisp]

What do you mean by y shaped bit?

[leafwhisp]

Mar 25, 2015 16:59:55 GMT -8 AJ said:

You could make a Y shaped bit, and put color on one side, and white on the other, and then swap the color and the white, and see if they still stand by their previous choice.

what do you mean by y shaped bit?

[AJ]

Mar 25, 2015 17:20:24 GMT -8 leafwhisp said:

Mar 25, 2015 16:59:55 GMT -8 AJ said:

You could make a Y shaped bit, and put color on one side, and white on the other, and then swap the color and the white, and see if they still stand by their previous choice.

what do you mean by y shaped bit?

Like a maze type tunnel. One main tunnel with two branches coming off of it, so it looks like a Y

[leafwhisp]

OH! Ok, that's a good idea! Any others? (I want to make sure there's one that my parents, my teacher, and myself all agree on)

[leafwhisp]

In music for gerbils Lizzie said: so lots of studies show that mice seem to learn better when exposed to classical music (hence Baby Einstein and such). They also show that mice are extremely bothered and can become mildly psychotic when exposed to really loud, really heavy rock music. It's actually used as an aversive stimulus in certain experiments that test for other things.

I've noticed that my gerbil, Chip, loves the song Fur Elise by Beethoven. Whenever I play it, he sort of stops and looks around, as if he's transfixed. But he doesn't seem to be freezing in fear. Other types of music make him noticeably anxious and he appears indifferent to others. But he always pays attention when Fur Elise comes on. It's adorable! My gerbils also seem to like Debussy and Mozart quite a bit.

Does anyone think that this would be a good fair project? Suggest how to test

[leafwhisp]

Please help needed!

[leafwhisp]

I think I will do sound as it is easier to test

[leafwhisp]

Anyone?

[leafwhisp]

I still would like advice on sound if you have any.

[leafwhisp]

Hi?

[Thelodar]

I do not know what you could do with sound. I do know how to test if gerbils can see in color. this will be a way to do what you thought of in the first post, but ensures the gerbil isn't simply smelling food. Are you familiar with clicker training? Gerbils can learn just like dogs and every other animal and clicker training is a fantastic way to teach them because it allows you to use a sound to "mark" when the animal does what you want so you can deliver the treat a little late but still tell the gerbil exactly when he did the right thing. you don't need to use a clicker, any noise or word will do as long as it's the same each time.

What you'll need to do is make multiple colored objects that are identical except for color. They can be blocks, cardboard circles, whatever. You are going to train the gerbil to "select" ONE color. Let's say it's blue.

The experiment should occur in a bare tank with only the gerbil you are training, The bedding should be a color you will not use in the experiment. Allow the gerbil a little time to explore the tank before training/experimenting.

Before starting the experiment you should spend a little time teaching the gerbil your "marker" (the click in clicker training). You can click a pen, click your mouth, or say the word yes. If you will need to be holding the colored objects to present them to the gerbil then obviously use your voice instead of something hand held like a pen. Every time you do this immediately give the gerbil a treat. Pick a treat that can be eaten quickly. You want him to appear to anticipate the food whenever you use the marker. Make sure you are silent other than to use the marker.

Then it's time to train him to like and select the color blue. Present only the blue object to him. If he sniffs at or touches it use your marker sound/word and then present a treat. Once he takes the treat remove the blue object. Then repeat. Do this over and over until he immediately approaches the blue object every single time you present it to him. Keep sessions VERY short. If he's full or bored he's going to stop participating and you want to prevent him from having a bad time. It's also extremely important that nothing bad happens when you show him the blue object so make sure you do this somewhere quiet with no other people or animals around that might spook him.

Once he reliably approaches the blue object every time you present it you need to start training him to approach ONLY the blue object. So now you'll start presenting the blue object and another colored object at the SAME time with some space between them. The second color should be something significantly different from blue, such as red or orange. Make sure one does not enter the tank before the other, but you put them in together. If he approaches the blue object mark and reward then remove the objects while he's eating so you can present them again. If he approaches the other object do nothing and wait until he goes back to the blue one. Be sure to change up which side the blue object is on so he does not simply learn the position. If he can see in color eventually he will learn to approach the blue object and ignore the other object each time you present them, or at least the vast majority of the time. If he cannot see in color he will approach the two objects fairly equally.

If he can't see in color the experiment can end there. You can say that the gerbil was unable to learn to distinguish between blue and the other color. If you have time you could alternately choose two different colors and repeat the experiment, training him to, for example, approach yellow and avoid pink (or whatever, just try make the colors as different from the original colors as possible). This will ensure that it's not just an issue of the particular colors you chose, but that they cannot differentiate any colors at all.

You could also go a step further and prove that gerbils can learn to differentiate between objects based on something other than color. This would ensure no one blames gerbil intelligence on the experiment failure. So instead of using different colored objects you could do different shapes or sizes (make sure the difference is significant) and train the gerbil to approach one shape or one size and ignore the other. If the gerbil can learn this it suggests that the gerbils really failed the original experiment due to lack of color vision not a lack of intelligence or ability to learn to distinguish between objects. You could even do this experiment with a different gerbil so you can teach one the color experiment and one the size/shape experiment to save time. After all you are looking at the ability of the species, not an individual.

If the original color experiment DOES indicate that the gerbil can differentiate between blue and the other color you can continue the experiment using blue and then introduce another color as well to show he can pick blue out between multiple colors. If you have trouble putting more than two colors in at once then stick a cardboard divider in the tank to block his view while you set up the objects and then remove it once they're all in.


Remember, keep training sessions super short and keep very good notes. Keep track of how often he chooses the correct object and how often he chooses the wrong object right from the start so you can see if there is any improvement. He might never choose blue 100% of the time but if he goes from 50% to 85% that may be significant.


So that's one thing you can do. How far you go depends on what age level you are and how hard the teacher is. Some might want you to take the extra steps I mentioned above while some will be fine with the original color experiment with blue and one other color and no further experiments or replications. Some of that will also depend on how much time you have.

Remember, working with live animals is hard! Are you expected to bring the gerbils to the fair and have them repeat the experiment for people? The gerbils may be too skittish to perform in a loud/crowded environment.

[leafwhisp]

Thanks!
No, I will not be bringing my gerbils to the science fair. I was planning to take a video of part of my experiment, and a few pics to put on my display board. I anticipated antsy gerbils if I move them (experience from when we moved them into the basement when there was a tornado here. They went crazy!).

[keldamouse]

Okay I had one idea about sound, gerbils can hear in lower decibels than humans. It would mean getting some sort of equipment to hear it. Maybe a take on their hearing levels and how they react to certain pitches. That's all i have, wish it was more.