|
Post by gerbilord on Jun 21, 2020 3:45:32 GMT -8
So it seems like my gerbil Merry is bullying my gerbil Pippin, and not letting her eat as much, or go on the wheel. At first I just thought they were grooming each other, but now i think they are actually having mini fights- they curl up in a ball, and Pippin keeps getting this bloody substance next to her eyes. Most of the time they seem to get on, though, they sleep together etc. The reason I'm posting is that Pippin feels as thin as a stick next to Merry, who is certainly much chunkier/fatter. Pippin only ever does a little trot on the wheel, while Merry is always on there, and I'm just wondering whether I should be at all concerned, should i feed Pippin separately so she gets the same amount of food? I know that gerbils can often be different in weight, but Pippin is A LOT smaller, even though they're the same age.
|
|
thejettgerbil
member
Jett's been chewing everything... EVERYTHING!
Posts: 28
|
Post by thejettgerbil on Jun 21, 2020 7:39:07 GMT -8
So it seems like my gerbil Merry is bullying my gerbil Pippin, and not letting her eat as much, or go on the wheel. At first I just thought they were grooming each other, but now i think they are actually having mini fights- they curl up in a ball, and Pippin keeps getting this bloody substance next to her eyes. Most of the time they seem to get on, though, they sleep together etc. The reason I'm posting is that Pippin feels as thin as a stick next to Merry, who is certainly much chunkier/fatter. Pippin only ever does a little trot on the wheel, while Merry is always on there, and I'm just wondering whether I should be at all concerned, should i feed Pippin separately so she gets the same amount of food? I know that gerbils can often be different in weight, but Pippin is A LOT smaller, even though they're the same age. Now, I'm not sure about most of this stuff here- but I can help with the red ”bloody substance”. I found this on another thread here. ”The red stuff is a substancebe called poryphin. It’s excreted when the gerbil is upset or allergic to something. Red noses are another sign, and this can lead to a respiratory infection if left untreated.”
|
|
|
Post by betty on Jun 22, 2020 3:53:44 GMT -8
Hello gerbilord - it sounds like you have a super dominant gerbil there. Now this doesn't always mean they will have a declan - but you will need to make some changes and keep a few notes if you can. I had several pairs like this - of females - where one was the most dominant and weighed more and sometimes beat the other one up - but I found out what things made it worse and I stopped doing them. So the dominant one was still a bit of a bully, but it stopped the fighting and most of the bullying and they stayed together their entire lives. Firstly, start scatter feeding on all levels, and if the water source is place that can be guarded (or where a gerbil can be seen from a nest if it goes up to it) move it or offere a second bottle on the other side of the enclosure. Make sure all your man-made nests have two entrances/exits and try to not swap or share these toys with any other pets you have. My super dominant females seemed to get worse if the other gerbil got any attention, were taken out of the enclosure for any reason alone or together or were given preference over anything I gave them. Needless to say after I spotted these things, I could adapt. Only letting the dominant one out for play time prevented any squabbles on returning back to the tank (even if the other one had been out on the sofa at the same time but was always put back in the enclosure for at least 5 minutes first), treats were always given to the dominant one first etc (but always plenty left for the other one). Dominant gerbils spend quite a bit of energy making sure they stay the boss - so if you can try to not over-turn that (by giving preference to the other one - or telling the dominant one off) and actually support the dominant gerbil in their dominance - I find the other one gets an easier life overall. Nothing better than seeing a dominant gerbil totally happy - surrounded by a pile of fresh kale (and unbeknownst to them - you are dropping some juicy raisins down to the other one who isn't allowed the kale...) Alternatively of course, you could split them up and see if they get on better with another partner - but this involves a whole loads of second guessing and might not be worth it overall if you can't get things right.
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Jun 24, 2020 2:13:42 GMT -8
Thanks for replying, I was just wondering if this looked like a fight? imgur.com/a/lIjQe5GThe video was taken on Saturday or Sunday I think, but it has happened before in a smaller, shorter way, I just thought it was grooming but I'm not as sure now... Thanks
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Jun 24, 2020 2:19:08 GMT -8
So it seems like my gerbil Merry is bullying my gerbil Pippin, and not letting her eat as much, or go on the wheel. At first I just thought they were grooming each other, but now i think they are actually having mini fights- they curl up in a ball, and Pippin keeps getting this bloody substance next to her eyes. Most of the time they seem to get on, though, they sleep together etc. The reason I'm posting is that Pippin feels as thin as a stick next to Merry, who is certainly much chunkier/fatter. Pippin only ever does a little trot on the wheel, while Merry is always on there, and I'm just wondering whether I should be at all concerned, should i feed Pippin separately so she gets the same amount of food? I know that gerbils can often be different in weight, but Pippin is A LOT smaller, even though they're the same age. Now, I'm not sure about most of this stuff here- but I can help with the red ”bloody substance”. I found this on another thread here. ”The red stuff is a substancebe called poryphin. It’s excreted when the gerbil is upset or allergic to something. Red noses are another sign, and this can lead to a respiratory infection if left untreated.” Hi, how can the poryphin be treated? I haven't noticed Pippin being upset or allergic, what would that look like? She doesn't have a red nose- is it the red nose or the poryphin that can lead to a respiratory infection (sorry, just a little confused and worried :S). Thanks :)
|
|
|
Post by betty on Jun 24, 2020 5:01:10 GMT -8
Yes gerbilord, I would say there is a degree of conflict there - can you see where the colourpoint gerbil (Merry?) on the right puts his foot up onto the other one - this is a precurser to a ball fight - but doesn't mean that he was ready to fight - it looks more like a test - as they are face to face (if one was 'winning' there would be wounds to the back and tail of the 'loser'). However, if Pippin is still trying to hold off the battle - then perhaps they are both unsure of who should be the boss and this is why the scuffles are getting more frequent. What sort of set up do you have - is it a ginormous set up or a smaller one (smaller is better if you are trying to reduce squabbling) and how often are they having these stand offs? Have you notice anything trigger them, like are they after treats, after playtime, at a certain time of day, when Pippin does a specific thing? Also, your other comment - you can't do anything about the porphyrin - it is produced by a gland and can exit the eyes through the tear glands when the gerbil is stressed (and that isn't just 'declan stress' it can be health or environmental issues), so him being in these scuffles could be making him what we would call 'upset'. Porphyrin deposits can streak down the face and appear on and around the nose and as they are an irritant, they can cause the gerbil to rub the nose and eyes and can lead to infections. Cleaning it off for them can help short term - but unless they stop producing it in excess, the issue will continue. If you have the space and the resources, I would consider moving towards them either being kept apart or set up a giant permanent split so they can interact, but neither of them can cause harm or be harmed. This hot weather won't help either...
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Jun 24, 2020 10:26:17 GMT -8
So, I think (from what I've seen) that Pippin (Siamese) used to be the more dominant one, and Merry accepted that, but now Merry has decided it would be nice to be the boss and is challenging Pippin, but maybe Pippin doesn't want to give up her position, so they have some conflict. They usually get along quite well (I think) and they snuggle up and sleep together, so I am quite reluctant to split them up. At the moment I don't have a spare cage for them, and not really the space either. My cage is really small, 48 x 37cm, and I am looking for a bigger and better one. If the gerbils are more likely to fight in a bigger space, is this a good idea with the current situation? I'm not entirely sure on how frequent they do the scuffles, the last time I noticed was when we took the video. There are a few things that have changed in the last few weeks but I don't think any of them could set them off: 1. We moved them out of our living room and into our conservatory (out of direct sunlight)- it gets hot in the day in this weather at the moment so during the day we put them in our garage which is cooler. 2. We adopted guinea pigs- they live in the same room but I doubt that would affect them 3. About a week ago I got them some new chews to play with But if these are truly scuffles they have been having them longer than the past month.
The Poryphin- Pippin does not have loads at any one time (just a bit in the corner of her eye) sometimes its a week and a bit before I see it again, I guess depending on how frequently the gerbils have a squabble. Is it only when its in excess eg. when it appears around the nose and rest of face that it can lead to infections- will a bit in at the end of the eye do any harm to her? I'd hate to have to separate them, I'm not even sure I can, and if I did would Pippin get better? Would they both need to be alone for the duration of their lives or would they need another companion? I don't think I have enough money for more pets, especially now I have the guinea pigs, which cost much more with the amount of food they get through (and how much bedding) The day when they had their worst scuffle (the video) was quite a warm day and they weren't in the garage at all that day, we let them into this big plastic box we have with tubes and everything, so they could have some exercise away from their cage and also some play-time, they began squabbling in the box itself, not after they were put back, I'm not sure how it started given that I wasn't in the room (my brother took the video) Thank you so much, apologies for the long reply
|
|
|
Post by betty on Jun 25, 2020 5:04:53 GMT -8
OK - maybe you need to just watch them a bit more and keep a diary - get your brother involved too so you can see twice as much - perhaps keep a clipboard or book next to them to write everything in so you have a few weeks worth of data.
If it is mainly when they are out of their original home, or have been out - or have just had treats or a new toy etc, you can see what might trigger this and eliminate it.
That way, you can keep them togheter still in the smaller set up, and see if -after you have removed the distractions - they stop squabbling? My girls used to to start the squabbles in the the run too where the dominant one wanted everything to BE HERS!!!!!!! (mine, mine, mine in the style of the seagulls in Finding Nemo).
Porphyrin is just one of those things. It is always in the gland in the eye, so there is no stopping it coming out if that is how his body is reacting to something. Perhaps reading more about it online (from a more medical-looking article/s) will help you get a better feel for what it is and what it does.
And I totally know about how much guinea pigs eat and poop!!!
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Jul 19, 2020 8:27:43 GMT -8
I know this is an old conversation but i was just wondering - today I put merry and pippin in the playpen, and pippin got some poryphin in her eye which wasn't there before. There were loads of hideaways and playthings and she was able to go back and forth between the playpen and her cage easily, so I don't know why she got it in her eye or why she might have been stressed. Her sister was absolutely fine and happy. There was no food in the playpen so i sprinkled some in and she settled down a bit to eat but then got really hyper again.
Also, Pippin has these little bags under her eyes, which my mum noticed and thought she looked tired (like when humans haven't had sleep for a while and develop baggy eyes) -I don't know if maybe she got something under her eyes and they caused an infection or something...
I weighed her and Merry today. Pippin = 74g roughly and Merry is 93g. So there's still a big weight difference between them, but there hasn't been any more conflict from what I've seen in the last month or so. Pippin also hasn't had as much poryphin in her eye (only a bit every few days or so) and I only got concerned when I saw it appear when she went in the playpen.
I can't stop putting them in the playpen - their cage is too small so I have to give them exercise outside each day until I manage to get their larger cage. I just don't know what to do. :(
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Jul 22, 2020 13:59:30 GMT -8
Old conversation? Nah it's only a month old . This might be completely irrelevant, but does she get poryphin when in the pen & the cage? Or just the pen? If just the pen, maybe she's allergic to something in there that's not in the cage?? As you know I'm a newbie with Gerbils , but I thought I'd throw that idea out there. Btw has the squabbling largely stopped now?
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Jul 22, 2020 21:44:19 GMT -8
She gets the poryphin both when in the cage and in the pen, but more often then not its in the pen. The day after I noticed, when I put her in again she didn't have any poryphin, so I still don't know what triggered it... (gerbil behaviour is so weird!)
I think the squabbling is okay now, they haven't really been seen doing it, unless its late at night, Pippin still feels skinny but she's definitely eating. :)
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Jul 23, 2020 3:03:23 GMT -8
Ah ok, so as clear as mud then! Fingers crossed then they're getting on better , has she put on weight?
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Jul 23, 2020 4:02:32 GMT -8
They are definitely getting on a bit better, I'm not sure if Pippin has put on weight, but she looks really healthy (except the "baginess" under her eyes, which I'm a little uncertain about) and she's very lively :)
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Jul 23, 2020 5:02:51 GMT -8
Cool I forgot to ask, what did you do to stop them squabbling?
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Jul 23, 2020 11:30:31 GMT -8
I removed the toys in their cage and also did a full clean of the cage, that seemed to do the trick, and for a while I didn't put them in the playpen but that wasn't good because their activity went down (small cage and not much excersise) so I started putting them back in and clean out the pen routinely so merry can't get too territorial.
|
|