Thea
Member
Posts: 1,012
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Post by Thea on Feb 7, 2022 5:50:15 GMT -8
Those white doops are amazing!
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Post by betty on Feb 7, 2022 12:38:38 GMT -8
I know - aren't they so soft looking!
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Post by Markpd on Feb 7, 2022 12:54:13 GMT -8
Very cute!
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Post by Shooting Star on Feb 13, 2022 13:40:47 GMT -8
The eyes look wine to me, which makes sense, as both C-dilutes and Underwhite(/-dense) reduce pigment in the eyes. Gray Agouti mongs have a creamy mid-band that lightens as they get older; we may be seeing something similar here. The most common genotype for BEW in rodents is simply an overmarked spotted. Most other kinds involve multiple mutations or have reduced pigment in the eyes.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 18, 2022 3:53:46 GMT -8
A couple of questions for betty (or anyone else with duprasi experience). What kind of things do they like to have in their tanks, and how does setting up a duprasi tank differ from setting up a Mongolian tank?
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Post by betty on Apr 18, 2022 8:28:40 GMT -8
It doesn't really - just maybe 'shallower'.
Many people tend to keep them more like modern hamsters - flatter and longer - and in tanks - but they can do ok in lower styles of gerbil set up too and with toppers - just not too thin and tall as they most likely won't enjoy it as much or use it a 3-dimensionally as normal gerbils - they aren't as agile. They love being underneath things and behind things - so this can sometimes dominate an enclosure - but they do love running around. External running plastic tunnels should be taken as a no as they can chew through plastic super easy and as they are often clumsy, solid and weighty - they may well snap them loose by mistake and escape.
One thing most people avoid for doops are high or steep ladders or slopes because although they can climb very well - they aren't very good at staying up there and often tumble down off things, lose their balance walking around things and have been known to break legs and tails getting stuck sliding down into things when falling.
Other than that they can very well live in the same substrates (traditional or sands/soils), same depths (although often they are kept more shallow), with the same chew toys and houses, same foods, treats, hays and plants. They love a wheel maybe more than a normal gerbil - although it can comfortably be a 21cm with doops. Doops can still chew if they want - but most often the speed of destruction is MUCH slower and so although ceramic and wooden things are still the norm - many people use more attractive/decorative plastic items and they tend to last a very long time compared to the normal gerbs - and some even use material/fleese houses with little or no chewing.
Also their enclosures tend to stay more like you left them in 50% of enclosures. There are certainly those who are more active and more earth-moving - but some barely move anything in their enclosure week to week, like they weren't even there.
Doops - mainly older females - can become more cage-defensive which normal gerbils don't really do - so a platform for feeding might be wise so your hand doesn't have to travel in too far. Many people recommend front-opening enclosures for them especially as younger male doops can be really hidey - hardly surfacing for anything - so this allows better hand access and visual angle. Overall doops are more nocturnal acting - but are not grumpy if woken up and handled any time - you just need to be able to find them - they quite often smack out at you if you try to reach in underneath the thing they are hiding in - so sealed end items can be a pain as a doop can genuinely sit still inside a glass jar for hours if you want them to come out to play!!!
Any specific things I missed - just ask...
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 8, 2022 6:30:15 GMT -8
I met my first doop in the flesh today! He's staying with me for a couple of weeks. How do you find them healthwise betty? Are they more or less prone to illness than Mongolians? Also, how do you pronounce "duprasi"? I'd only ever seen the word written before and pronounced one way in my head, but today I heard it pronounced another way.
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Post by betty on Jul 9, 2022 6:26:43 GMT -8
It is usually pronounced duh-PRAY-zee or do-PRAY-zee (with quite a short do more like d'praayzee) - but we all call them doops for short anyway...
They are so far a bit unknown as we haven't had as much feedback on them health-wise so nothing has been reported in any gret numbers The top cause of death right now is 'sudden'.
Top of the list of noticed symptoms as it stands are eye issues (variety of things that you can see in the eye and which normally preceeds another health issue (except cherry eye and fatty eye which are uite harmelss on their own) and shrivelled tails (which we aren't really sure what they mean but usually don't end well).
There have been one or two reports of ovarian cysts, internal tumours, kidney issues, and broken teeth - and there are a fair amount of reports of reproductive issues ranging from mishapen conkers to pregnancy-related deaths.
All a bit up in the air still, but the feedback is always coming in.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 9, 2022 6:58:10 GMT -8
I've been pronouncing it wrong in my head then!
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Thea
Member
Posts: 1,012
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Post by Thea on Jul 9, 2022 23:22:27 GMT -8
Same! I've always thought of it as do-prAH-zee, I think because I heard someone pronounce it like that once.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 10, 2022 15:02:40 GMT -8
I thought it was do-prA-ssee, with a short A as in cat.
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Post by betty on Jul 11, 2022 11:27:37 GMT -8
I hadn't thought there could be so many different ways of saying it.
Funny really, now I want to try to find out for sure...
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Sept 9, 2022 2:38:24 GMT -8
It is usually pronounced duh- PRAY-zee or do- PRAY-zee (with quite a short do more like d'praayzee) - but we all call them doops for short anyway... They are so far a bit unknown as we haven't had as much feedback on them health-wise so nothing has been reported in any gret numbers The top cause of death right now is 'sudden'. Top of the list of noticed symptoms as it stands are eye issues (variety of things that you can see in the eye and which normally preceeds another health issue (except cherry eye and fatty eye which are uite harmelss on their own) and shrivelled tails (which we aren't really sure what they mean but usually don't end well). There have been one or two reports of ovarian cysts, internal tumours, kidney issues, and broken teeth - and there are a fair amount of reports of reproductive issues ranging from mishapen conkers to pregnancy-related deaths. All a bit up in the air still, but the feedback is always coming in. Have you come across very brittle teeth in duprasi? The doop who was staying broke his bottom tooth a couple of days into his stay in July. His owner said it had happened a few times before. He had to be fed soft foods for a few days but it grew back. Then he went home but came back for another couple of weeks in August and the same thing happened! This time the first sign of trouble was the skin on his tail becoming a little loose. So I had to check he was eating enough every day which was quite exhausting and I'm glad he is home again now. The whole experience has put me off duprasi a little bit as my first impression of them is as rather frail creatures but perhaps I am mistaken? Have you heard of this problem before? For teeth to break so regularly and easily I think there has to be some kind of internal issue going on.
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Post by betty on Sept 10, 2022 4:37:13 GMT -8
We still don't know everything about duprasi health wise - but they do sometimes suffer from tooth trouble just like most other small mammals kept in captivity - the only reason it isn't so heard of in doops is simply because not as many people have them. I have had MANY a duprasi myself and none of them have had front-tooth issues - like you describe above - but then I (thankfully) only ever had 2 normal gerbils with front-tooth troubles in the (several) decades of keeping them in large numbers too.
Brittle teeth breaking regularly would certainly indicate to me that there was some kind of issue - either structural (malocclusion) or dietary (incorrect nutrition either a primary* or secondary** deficiency). There are plenty of things to feed such an animal (just like with normal gerbils) however hospital care of a duprasi is just as labour intensive as with any other toothless mammal as they tend to tread in and tip over everything every other hour - and so they need constant watching and weighing - even moreso when it is someone else's beloved pet!!!
Sore/closed eyes in the duprasi are also sometimes indiciative of a tooth/mouth issue also - but as it isn't always easy to check a gerbils BACK teeth, these things are often not investigated further by most vets (only an x-ray will give you any useful answers here). We have had quite a number of reports of duprasi with cherry eye (where the eye socket isn't formed correctly/isn't holding the supporting eye tissues in the usual place) - so perhaps there is something underlying in the species regarding skull formation and therefore teeth/jaw formation also (malocclusion). Perhaps I will try getting some x-rays of several duprasi heads to create a benchmark going forwards?
The loose skin on the tail and tail shrivelling are the main indicator of an unwell doop from any source. This source isn't always something that you can easily identify and in most cases it means that there is something (irreversible) occuring inside somewhere. There aren't many cases of my own doops surviving past 6 months after a tail shrivel is spotted regardless of ongoing and very determined hospital care - but there are now several who have come back from it if the issue is identified and can be remedied. Of course, many doops of mine who have shrivelled were already old - and so the 6 months period could have been any number of additional/other issues - not necesarily that the original one hadn't been remedied? We are still experimenting with their husbandry and veterinary procedures regarding this phenomenom.
As for duprasi being frail - I would perhaps agree with you that they aren't quite as hardy overall as normal gerbils in some circumstances it would seem, but they can certainly survive an awful lot of things externally. I mean I have heard of doops being through some very tough surgeries (including amputations) and procedures (sometimes multiple) without really batting an eyelid. They fall of ledges and shelves all the time and have survived uninjured from falling some great distances after climbing out of enclosures (maybe due to their rotund shape - more like a hedgehog) - and they certainly don't have a fear of heights.
If you wanted to - let me (pm only) know where are you based Lily - as you are more than welcome to foster an older duprasi if you wanted - one without brittle teeth - and so you could get to know them a bit better without the full commitment of a new lifelong pet?
*Primary deficiency = not eating the right stuff in the first place ** Secondary deficiency = eating the right stuff but the body is unable to digest it or use it properly
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Sept 10, 2022 5:28:49 GMT -8
Thanks for the foster offer but I think I have as much as I can handle rodent-wise at the moment.
Yes, a sick pet is always stressful but when it's not even your own it adds a whole new dimension. Also the first he broke a tooth was about a week after my own Mongolian gerbil Twiglet had broken her tooth so I was a bit exasperated worried but I can think of no way the two events could reasonably be connected! But at least it meant I was more on alert for tooth issues than I might otherwise have been.
His owner said the tail shrivelling has been temporary in the past, just when he's not eating enough due to his teeth. I think it filled out a bit once I started giving him soft foods. I found the tail changed before his weight even dropped so it seems quite a good clue to their health.
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