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Post by betty on Aug 15, 2020 2:25:58 GMT -8
I was just wondering if anyone out there was working on a particular breeding project with their Clan?
I know people used to be looking at DPP (Dark Patched Pied) and its inheritance; there were also some people expanding on the Steel gene pattern; but has or is there anything else or anything NEW being looked into?
Was there a Wavy gene identified for sure and has the 'eye problem' been totally eradicated from the Rex lines today?
I'm not currently breeding Mongolian gerbils - so have been out of the loop for a while - but would love to catch up if anyone was involved in or has recently been reading about any of the above?
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Post by gerbilord on Aug 15, 2020 8:50:51 GMT -8
I'm certainly not planning on breeding, but am interested about the gene factor. The "eye problem" with rex breeds, what do you mean? My two gerbils are rex and Pippin looks like she has an eye problem of some sort. After I've used up my wood shavings, I'll be switching to hemp to combat this, but if its got something to do with the breed of gerbil, would this actually help at all?
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Post by betty on Aug 16, 2020 2:15:25 GMT -8
Genes are fascinating - the way they work and the effects they can have are far reaching. Often we only see the effects on the hair itself - lke it makes the gerbil orange instead of black - but they can affect all the insides too.
As for the 'eye problem' - it was right towards the start of the Rex coat in the UK (probably more than 10 years ago now I can't remember) - and on some research I remember finding out about 'eye pustules' where adult gerbils with the dominant Rex gene were very likely to have what appeared to be issues with their eyes/eyelashes in later life (not unexpected as they all focus around the same hair-related trigger genes).
This caused what were called 'eye pustules' (sores on the eye ball itself) and there seemed to be no treatment - and no preventing it. There was also talk of it being 'carried' even in gerbils without the dominant gene (ie no visible rex coat) but noone really knew and you only found out after 2 years as well - so it was a nightmare to figure things out.
Breeders were therefore advised to contain the gene (and the entire lines) to stop it's spread through the gerbil world until this was investigated further and either eradicated of it became treatable. So no homing of pups from Rex lines.
Apparently, over time - it was to a certain extent eradicated and now we have Rex gerbils across the country - however still quite unusual for sure. The ones in the UK are nowhere NEAR as Rexy as the amazing examples that have been worked on selectively in Europe - so I was never sure if the 'old' Rex gene was superceded by a 'new' Rex gene - or the Wavy gene - or a combination of them both. Just wondered about revisiting it if any had recently had a look into it?
So, if you Rex gerbil has eye problems - in theory it shouldn't be because of the gene - it is most likely the bedding - but if other people with Rexes are still reporting some kind of eye troubles, then perhaps this could be something else new to or always existing in the coat - as the images of these pustules were not very nice.
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Post by gerbilord on Aug 16, 2020 3:25:02 GMT -8
hmm that's interesting... Pippin has a bump with no hair at the corner of her eye (facing the tail), but it's not on the eyeball so it's probably not got anything to do with the rex gene... I'll try and take a photo but it is hard to keep a wriggling gerbil still!
I'll definitely switch the bedding and see if the eye cures...
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Post by betty on Aug 16, 2020 5:35:57 GMT -8
Yes, not many people really look uber closely at every part of their gerbils - so a lot of these things go unnoticed.
Always a good first bet with anything eye-related is to clean the whole enclosure (and surroundings) and move onto a new source of substrate for a few weeks.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Aug 16, 2020 15:04:56 GMT -8
I thought I heard once that Rex gerbils had curly eyelashes that could turn inwards and irritate the eye, or is that not correct?
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Post by betty on Aug 17, 2020 2:15:32 GMT -8
I'm not sure if it was directly related to the incurling eyelashes (as that happens in many species that aren't rex-coated) but yes, it could certainly have had something to do with the hair formation around the eyes - I don't remember reading that they found out an exact cause of it?
The genes for hair formation and color can directly affect the eyes; like all-white animals (where the hair color doesn't 'switch on' properly) often have sight or hearing issues as the color of the hair isn't working properly so it also sometimes doesn't switch on the eyes or ears properly either.
Weird right? That's why a lot of mainly white animals - like spaniels, rabbits and rats - all usually have colour on their heads or at least around the eyes and ears. We have bred them like that over time I assume - to make sure they are 'working'. (Well in actuality, we haven't bred them the other way).
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Aug 17, 2020 5:25:34 GMT -8
Yes, I have heard that with the Extreme White gerbils, the level of disability is correlated with whether the ears are white. Spotting genetics fascinate me. Lily is a whitepaw and she has quite pale, but not white, ears, but the paleness has developed as she's got older. I'm pretty sure she used to have normal coloured ears.
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Post by betty on Aug 18, 2020 1:51:10 GMT -8
Have you read all about the new Steel gene from Shooting Star's website - all very fascinating. I learnt a lot from that - and very interesting if you like new discoveries and a little bit or investigation!
It all started with some tiny foot patches being noticed...
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Aug 18, 2020 15:52:29 GMT -8
I haven't read about that but it sounds interesting. The link to the Steel page on Shooting Star's website seems to be broken at the moment but I'll check back in a few weeks.
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Post by betty on Aug 19, 2020 11:02:03 GMT -8
Oh, perhaps she is updating it!!!
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Post by betty on Dec 13, 2020 16:20:26 GMT -8
It wasn't updated on the Steel Gene - but there was some new info on the Dark Patch Pied patterning - and after months or more of studying - it is a newly name gene! I mentioned it on other threads but thought I would update this one seeing as we were talking about it: Steel Gene (2013) - Steel GeneDark Patch Gene (2020) - Dark Patch
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Post by Shooting Star on Dec 19, 2020 13:15:47 GMT -8
There's not really anything new that I'm aware of. There were supposed to be a number of Underwhite (uw) gerbils coming into the US from a retiring Canadian breeder, but that was just before the border shut down, so they're kind of still in limbo in Canada. There's currently a rather neat looking tricolored gerbil in Malaysia; it's most likely a somatic mutation (not heritable), but he's still a pup, so there's no breeding data yet and it could still turn out to be heritable. If you want to keep up with/catch up on the latest, I run the Just Gerbil Genetics facebook group: www.facebook.com/groups/886015181478604There is (was?) a Wavy gene. It's recessive, and it's the one that was having problems with eye pustules (which were on the eyelids, not the surface of the eye itself). To my knowledge, no Rex gerbils that were not from Wavy lines ever had that particular issue. I'm not sure if anyone is still working with Wavy, or it was simply allowed to die out because of the eye issues. Wavy is/was rather interesting, because there was a satiny sheen to some of them, but there were other health problems as well that they were never able to breed out. I did do an update on Steel, actually! And it was a major one. I just folded it into my existing genetics section rather than writing a standalone article: shootingstargerbils.com/genetics-Sfm.html
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Post by betty on Dec 19, 2020 15:18:50 GMT -8
Thanks for the fascinating information and updates. Can't wait to have a read...
I had read about the wavy gene years back, but most of the info was lost when egerbil went rogue.
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Post by betty on Dec 20, 2020 10:04:10 GMT -8
And Shooting Star - just a question: I may not be using the correct terminology - but has anyone ever tried to create a mock-fox mouse colouring in self gerbils using reduction and extension of existing spotting patterns? I always thought this would be a great project - but I know how fickle inheritance of the spotting genes are so never tried it myself?
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