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Post by beachbumgerbils on Oct 6, 2020 17:06:14 GMT -8
The top pup's color I would love advice on and can post more pics tomorrow, but I think he is a dark eyed honey. He has black eyes and a white belly.
Momma gerbil in the second picture is an argente. She has pink eyes and a white belly.
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Post by betty on Oct 7, 2020 5:21:48 GMT -8
I had assumed that the mum was a Saffron/Red Fox as all the pups are on the aa/self side and she had that smoother ginger colour. Ergo, I thought that the ginger pups was a spotted nutmeg as it had such dark ears?
But then, I never was much good from images and have been out of mongolian breeding for a few years now...
How white is the mums tummy as you can't see ANY of it in that picture? That's why I am rubbish with images!!!
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Post by beachbumgerbils on Oct 8, 2020 6:27:38 GMT -8
Betty, I think you were right on the money with the red fox. Momma is in fact a self, no white on the belly. I haven't handled them much, especially her as they all settle in. I just assumed she was argente because her topside looks exactly like my argente boys. Red fox definitely makes more sense when taken in context with the rest of the group. There are lots of black, a couple of lilacs/sapphires/doves.
The little one does in fact have a white belly and dark eyes. So I'm still thinking Dark eyed honey. Or maybe light dark eyed honey. It's hard when you are just comparing to pictures!
And the little guy is not in with the red fox. His mom was either black or a pink eyed whitish gerbil that is still so stained I can't tell what color she is. She might have a yellowish tail or she might just have urine staining from the horrid conditions.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Oct 8, 2020 6:51:25 GMT -8
Pied gerbils can have white on the belly so he could still be a pied nutmeg. You'll know in a few weeks anyway as a nutmeg will become ticked. I think he looks very ginger for a DEH.
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Post by beachbumgerbils on Oct 8, 2020 7:10:29 GMT -8
This whole thing has turned into an excellent learning opportunity! I was planning to start with stock whose colors and genetics I knew, then the pups would be much less of a mystery.
Now I have only the vaguest of ideas of ages and genetics. I will definitely keep you guys up to date as everyone ages. A nutmeg would definitely make sense with the other mishmash of colors in the group.
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Post by betty on Oct 8, 2020 14:58:39 GMT -8
Ha ha - yes - having pups in the house certainly starts you looking into genetics more as you have them all there in front of you it is easier to learn stuff. And yes, spotted and white tummies can be difficult at first (just like learning that the spotted isn't part of the colour - it lays on TOP of the colour (it doesn't change any colour genes)) - but the main tummy difference is you are either 'white on the tummy' or you have an 'actual white tummy from front to back and up the sides'. The white tummy in A* gerbil colours is a switched on gene that makes all the colour (of a gerbil) switch off below a line (a demarkation line as it is technically called). You can also look up Tan and Fox mice for a clearer example of what this demarkation looks like (slightly different gene in mice but the same effect - and yes I would LOVE to find the gene that gives black gerbils white tummies!!!) Once you have seen it a few times yourself, you will always know the difference and you will be able to also tell the difference between the Argente low line and the Honey high line! I always thought these sounded terrible when I first read them (WHAT DO YOU MEAN HIGHER OR LOWER? ) - but once you get your eye in there is no mistaking them. Perhaps draw a simple line family tree of colours and start filing in the genes you know? Some colours just can't be made with or without certain genes so it can really help narrow thing down sometimes. start a new thread for colours if you want and we can all help you whittle it down and give you tips on some of the genetics and how to ID certain colours by toenails and ear colour??? (yes, they are really ID things)
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Post by beachbumgerbils on Oct 8, 2020 15:36:26 GMT -8
Thank you for all the info! I'll head over to the colors page as I get better pics on everyone.
Part of my problem is even getting a basic family tree. This crazy lady had 2 females with 1 male, so I'm not sure which of the 2 females is the mother of which of the 2 litters that were all mixed together in a single little cage. She had at least finally removed the male, but couldn't tell me which of the 6 adult males the father was...It's a fun game! I can't wait to see the colors of the saffron's babies. I have no idea who dad was on that one either!
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Post by betty on Oct 8, 2020 16:23:11 GMT -8
I love puzzles like this....
Well, you know that the dad can't be an agouti colour for those pups - so that could help narrow the dad down - and we know the mums and the pups so we can narrow down the dad further - and if you know the dad you can help work out the mum...
I need to look back at your images and see what we have there... (unless you are starting a new thread with pictures so we can do it all there).
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Post by beachbumgerbils on Oct 9, 2020 13:43:48 GMT -8
I will start a new thread for teasing out colors!
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