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Post by Thelodar on Dec 5, 2020 9:43:03 GMT -8
I wanted to create a resource for other gerbil owners who are preparing to do their first gerbil introductions or first challenging introductions. This will be a place for people to post footage of gerbil introductions, both ones that went well and ones that ended poorly.
Here are a few guidelines for posting a helpful video:
1. State the ages and sexes of the gerbils involved
2. Give context for what we will see in the video. Was a split tank used? How long were they in the split? Is this the first time they are meeting or has this been attempted before? Are we seeing the first moment they meet or have they been together for several minutes/an hour, etc.?
3. PLEASE state the outcome of the introduction. Did they bond, did they have to be resplit and tried again later, or did they have to be separated permanently? This is very important information as it will help viewers determine what behaviors might be cause for concern in their own intros and what might be normal behavior in a successful intro.
Feel free to give more information or interpretations of what we are seeing in the video.
DO NOT POST VIDEOS OF GERBILS BEING KILLED OR SEVERELY MAIMED
I sincerely hope nobody here has such a video, but I thought I should mention that just in case.
This can also be a place to post videos of the split cage process with information about what behaviors to look for that indicate the gerbils are or are not ready to meet face to face.
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Post by Thelodar on Dec 5, 2020 11:31:43 GMT -8
I'll start with Piper and Peggy's introduction (Peggy is black, Piper is sapphire). This ended in a successful introduction (this occurred about 2.5 weeks ago). They are adult females (Piper is about 2 years old, Peggy is maybe 7-8 months old). This is after 7 weeks in a split tank. This is the fourth time they were allowed to meet face to face. Prior attempts did not result in any serious fighting, but a lot of tense body language during the majority of interactions and a few minor scuffles that left me uncomfortable to leave them together alone. The first video is the first moment they interact after the split was removed. I will provide my interpretation of what is going on. These are my opinions based on my experience thus far, I am fairly new at this myself and no expert in gerbil body language.  As you can see there is some posturing and a little over interest but no fighting. They are good about momentarily ending interactions after several seconds without having to be told off. I added the tube and some treats to the tank to help distract them from each other a bit. This next video was taken not long after. I added more stuff to occupy them. You can see they are able to be in close proximity without getting tense or pestering each other.  In this next video we see an occurrence of aggressive posturing from Piper. Peggy responds by holding her back with her front paws, and then attempts to groom, which Piper rejects. Peggy diffuses the situation when she lowers herself and walks away.  In this video we see Peggy sniffing Piper's underside (scent gland or genital area, not sure). I have found most gerbils don't like this if it lingers on. Piper tells her to stop. She does but is then a little pushy with her. Piper holds her ground and then grooms Peggy briefly. Grooming can be done in affection, but can also be done to establish or confirm dominance which can be problematic if the other gerbils protests. This was brief and appeared gentle, so not problematic. She allows Peggy to walk away.  Here is some aggressive posturing from Piper which Peggy again responds to by calmly holding her back. Something then appears to startle Piper which ends the interaction. Not entirely sure what triggered the posturing, but I do find sometimes being approached while in the corner makes some gerbils get defensive.  Here they are each doing their own thing in close proximity. Peggy decides to push Piper off her tube and Piper allows it with no fuss.  Here is an example of the most concerning type of interaction I saw during their introduction. They did something like this about three times that day. It seems to start because Peggy approaches Piper and stands very stiffly with her nose against Piper (fun fact, this is also very rude in cats). In each case it appeared that one was attempting to pin down the other and the other did not want it to happen. In this scenario Peggy was attempting to pin, but Piper did the same thing to Peggy shortly after. I intentionally stopped this interaction by lifting up my arm. I wanted to slightly startle them without making them too scared. They stopped very easily, which is good. I wasn't sure if this might turn into a fight if it continued. Do note that nobody ever uses their mouth on the other. It is clear that Piper tries to disengage several times (she turns or looks away from Peggy) and that Peggy is the instigator here. However, despite disengaging (and possibly trying to leave a couple of times), Piper does not back down completely. She is not okay with Peggy's rude/challenging behavior and thus does not back down and let Peggy "win" completely. In hindsight this is probably how gerbils determine who is dominant and is perhaps a necessary part of an introduction, at least where there is not a pup or otherwise very submissive gerbil involved. That said, it doesn't mean something like this couldn't result in a real fight depending on the personalities involved. In this case despite a few of these pinning fights we had a successful intro.  |
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Post by Thelodar on Dec 5, 2020 12:07:20 GMT -8
The following is a failed introduction between two adult males (both around 7-8 months old), Edgar and Scotty. Edgar is sapphire, Scotty is black. They were in a split, but only for about 7-10 days. Scotty's intense fear of me may have suppressed his behavior after swapping during the split tank process. As a result he was not scent marking or showing any signs of discontent after being swapped, giving me the impression that things were going well. This actually happened with Peggy and Piper too (Peggy being afraid of me and suppressing her behavior after swaps). But because of the very long split tank I did with them, she eventually became comfortable with me and began expressing normal behavior after a couple of weeks in the split. Blood was drawn during the introduction so the two were permanently separated. WARNING: FIGHT. Blood is drawn on Edgar but is not visible in the video. This is the first time they are meeting face to face. The video shows them the moment the divider is removed. The initial mouth to mouth contact is ok, Scotty disengages and moves away. Edgar pursues with intense butt sniffing and that's when things go south. Scotty doesn't like the butt sniffing and turns to face Edgar, the two of them press against each other tensely. Note the fast breathing. Edgar moves towards Scotty and that's when Scotty pins him. Note the tail wagging. It's hard for me to tell if Scotty is initially attempting to make a point about who is in charge and grooming Edgar or if he is attempting to bite from the start. In any event, at some point there is a bite and it turns into a fight with biting and kicking. Scotty is uninjured, Edgar has a bite to his cheek and corner of his mouth. Edgar attempted to bite me but the gloves did their job. Afterwards Scotty was doing this teeth chattering thing. Not sure if that's a behavior seen in angry gerbils, a reaction to tasting the other gerbil, or just an arousal behavior.  |
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Post by Markpd on Dec 28, 2020 14:46:27 GMT -8
I meant to ask, is it worth posting the Erin's ark video here I linked elsewhere showing a brief ball fight? Or do you think you have that covered in the above video?
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Post by Thelodar on Dec 31, 2020 18:00:37 GMT -8
I meant to ask, is it worth posting the Erin's ark video here I linked elsewhere showing a brief ball fight? Or do you think you have that covered in the above video? Sure, I would just add some info so people know that it's a bad/failed intro despite what Erin may say in the video. |
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Post by klc651 on Jan 27, 2021 12:50:18 GMT -8
This thread is super helpful to me, as we are beginning and introduction process with a split cage today. More videos would be great, I just don’t know what to look for.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 27, 2021 18:37:18 GMT -8
I forgot about posting Erin's Ark video  , I think comments on it would be better served by people with more experience than me, betty Shooting Star beachbumgerbils , but for what it's worth the ball fight that happens there is quite a bad one, and note some of the other gerbils fleeing the area and trying to escape from the cage! |
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Post by klc651 on Feb 21, 2021 8:26:16 GMT -8
I forgot about posting Erin's Ark video , I think comments on it would be better served by people with more experience than me, betty Shooting Star beachbumgerbils , but for what it's worth the ball fight that happens there is quite a bad one, and note some of the other gerbils fleeing the area and trying to escape from the cage! Can someone please give me a link? I can’t seem to find the ball fight video |
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Post by Markpd on Feb 21, 2021 11:26:36 GMT -8
Theirs a link in my post and the same message you quoted! lol  |
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Post by sandybadlands on Feb 21, 2021 16:08:21 GMT -8
I just dug up my ten-year-old video of a successful introduction: www.youtube.com/watch?v=l4UCGhtelJ4(It's a bit hard to see them at first, because I was focusing more on making sure they were getting along than trying to get a good video.) They were both males, probably close to a year old. Also, Peppy was blind and Chilly was missing his back feet—not that it mattered too much. They were in the split tank for eight days and this was their first time meeting face to face. They made a great pair for the rest of Chilly's life (trio, actually, once I introduced Chilly's brother nine months later). Looking at this video in retrospect it's interesting that Chilly was so quick to let Peppy groom him, which definitely seems like a good sign. It's also notable because Chilly was always the boss in his former group, but Peppy had a way of making his friends feel comfortable.  |
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Post by Markpd on Jul 2, 2022 16:17:24 GMT -8
I'd forgotten about this thread! Now that I can, this thread is definitely worthy of pinning . |
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Post by Markpd on Feb 5, 2023 9:53:13 GMT -8
I thought this one would be worth adding here, although we don't know all the details.
And here's one of a successful pup 'swarm' to adult introduction. Warning, extreme cuteness involved! 
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), late 70s
, I think comments on it would be better served by people with more experience than me, 
