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Post by chsrlox on Dec 22, 2020 14:07:12 GMT -8
So I currently have 10 PEW gerbils (1 is the mother and the father was a burmese but has now passed) and I also have 2 colourpoint agoutis born to a PEW mother and Burmese father (8 PEWs are female and 2 PEWs are male along with 2 male colourpoint agoutis.
What can I do to produce Burmese/siamese pups? Is might get 4 more gerbils and what colours should the 4 be to produce as many different colours as possible? All I seem to get is PEWs and I really want different colours but my colourpoint agoutis are the only colourpoints in my area.
Please help me 🥺
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Pim
Member
Posts: 346
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Post by Pim on Dec 22, 2020 14:11:00 GMT -8
Posted this in the wrong place, next time try the genetics board! otherwise i'm not much help. Maybe betty or Shooting Star know.
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Post by betty on Dec 24, 2020 2:48:42 GMT -8
Do you have any family history on the parents chsrlox - this could be the only thing that helps you with the PEW genetics? PEWs are basically a blank post-it note. They will have certain go-tos - but could have anything else in there - hiding. What we know they have are two colourpoint genes (of which at least one will be c chm from the father) and they will have pp (otherwise they wouldn't be PEWs in the first place). Also PEW can occur more readily in some pairings (due to these two genes being 'linked' genes and more likely to not mix up like normal genes) so you can't always work on percentages for your other present genes (if any show up). So, best thing to help us work this out is to keep the pairings seperate (both written and physically for now) - so: Litter 1 (PEW (1) x Burmese (A)) - all PEW pups; and Litter 2 (PEW (2) x Burmese (B)) - contains 2 colorpoint agoutis *Can you confirm that they are the same or a different Burmese in each each litter. So all we can say for now is that Burmese A and B carry the pink-eye gene: aa c chmc chm E* Pp Uw* And PEW 1 is totally unknown; but that PEW 2 must be A* at least. Once we have added to this in any way we can - then we can look at what other colours would be good to add to your stock. And it depends if you want to colour-test your own PEW stock over several generations or start again without them? If you are looking to clear out the chances of PEW - you would need to remove or reduce the genes you don't want. So, it would be best to find a breeder who specialises in recording their genetics and get gerbils who definitely do not contain any colourpoint genes or any pink-eye genes. It would also be in your favour to get individual carriers of all genes, or to get colours with the most natural high-load recessives (silver nutmegs and REWs etc). I don't know how to move a thread into another category, sorry.
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Post by Markpd on Dec 24, 2020 4:41:06 GMT -8
I would think Shooting star (or any other mods) should be able to move the thread.
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Post by Shooting Star on Dec 25, 2020 8:24:08 GMT -8
I'm not getting my notification emails when I'm tagged for some reason, or they're getting lost in my inbox. -_-
If you breed PEWs with colorpoints, you're going to keep getting a lot of PEWs. We need a more specific goal than "as many different colors as possible" if you want guidance on what colors to get out of the entire spectrum of gerbil colors.
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Post by Markpd on Dec 25, 2020 18:18:41 GMT -8
Caught in spam?
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Post by chsrlox on Dec 28, 2020 23:06:28 GMT -8
I would think Shooting star (or any other mods) should be able to move the thread. They are diffetent Burmese dads,both unknown-ish genetics though they both came from litters of Burmese and silver nutmeg pups but the parents are unknown unfortunately though the burmeses are about 5% related to eachother from what I was told both Burmese dad have passed as they were a little older and their offspring are all between 7 months and 5 weeks old and the last dad died when the newest litter was about 4 weeks old Gerbils are extremely rare in my area and the nearest breeder is 2 hours away so it's difficult to get more gerbils though yesterday I got 6 new females (2 silver nutmegs, 1 dark honey, 1 nutmeg, 1 honey cream and 1 spotted nutmeg) I'm going to breed the 2 agoutis to a few of those females but I also want to breed my 7 PEW females as there are nearly no gerbils around me but are very high in demand the 1st PEW has both parents being REH and the second had both parents with very light REH
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Post by chsrlox on Dec 28, 2020 23:08:19 GMT -8
I'm not getting my notification emails when I'm tagged for some reason, or they're getting lost in my inbox. -_- If you breed PEWs with colorpoints, you're going to keep getting a lot of PEWs. We need a more specific goal than "as many different colors as possible" if you want guidance on what colors to get out of the entire spectrum of gerbil colors. Honestly I just want atleast other colourpoint agoutis or anything else since I have 9 PEWs out of all 17 of my gerbils :/
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Post by betty on Dec 29, 2020 2:35:31 GMT -8
Brilliant work on getting new gerbils without the pink-eye gene OR full colourpoints - and at least 1 on the A side.
So, you didn't tell us the colours (and history) of all your preferred breeding stock. This could help us to look at possible best pairings for your individual PEWs.
Perhaps pop them in two lists (males/females) for us here so we can make better sense of it. I am sure from this list, we can defo get you some different colours for sure - especially now you have said that PEW1 and PEW2 are 'ee'.
Also, though you said that PEW1 had only REH parents - it couldn't have - otherwise it wouldn't be PEW? It must have had Light REH parents too (as only Light REHs carry the cp genes needed to make PEWs). Are you sure this one isn't a REW or the parents weren't full-colour REHs? Just a minor thing - but worth straightening out as we go along...
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Post by Markpd on Dec 29, 2020 4:01:32 GMT -8
I would think Shooting star (or any other mods) should be able to move the thread. They are different Burmese dads,both unknown-ish genetics though they both came from litters of Burmese and silver nutmeg pups but the parents are unknown unfortunately though the burmeses are about 5% related to each other from what I was told both Burmese dad have passed as they were a little older and their offspring are all between 7 months and 5 weeks old and the last dad died when the newest litter was about 4 weeks old Gerbils are extremely rare in my area and the nearest breeder is 2 hours away so it's difficult to get more gerbils though yesterday I got 6 new females (2 silver nutmegs, 1 dark honey, 1 nutmeg, 1 honey cream and 1 spotted nutmeg) I'm going to breed the 2 agoutis to a few of those females but I also want to breed my 7 PEW females as there are nearly no gerbils around me but are very high in demand the 1st PEW has both parents being REH and the second had both parents with very light REH I'm curious as to what country you're in? (or a US state?)
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Post by chsrlox on Dec 29, 2020 19:15:31 GMT -8
They are different Burmese dads,both unknown-ish genetics though they both came from litters of Burmese and silver nutmeg pups but the parents are unknown unfortunately though the burmeses are about 5% related to each other from what I was told both Burmese dad have passed as they were a little older and their offspring are all between 7 months and 5 weeks old and the last dad died when the newest litter was about 4 weeks old Gerbils are extremely rare in my area and the nearest breeder is 2 hours away so it's difficult to get more gerbils though yesterday I got 6 new females (2 silver nutmegs, 1 dark honey, 1 nutmeg, 1 honey cream and 1 spotted nutmeg) I'm going to breed the 2 agoutis to a few of those females but I also want to breed my 7 PEW females as there are nearly no gerbils around me but are very high in demand the 1st PEW has both parents being REH and the second had both parents with very light REH I'm curious as to what country you're in? (or a US state?) I'm in the UK, London area so there arent many gerbils around and the few that are, are from pet shops which I want to avoid as much as absolutely possible
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Post by chsrlox on Dec 29, 2020 19:21:42 GMT -8
Brilliant work on getting new gerbils without the pink-eye gene OR full colourpoints - and at least 1 on the A side. So, you didn't tell us the colours (and history) of all your preferred breeding stock. This could help us to look at possible best pairings for your individual PEWs. Perhaps pop them in two lists (males/females) for us here so we can make better sense of it. I am sure from this list, we can defo get you some different colours for sure - especially now you have said that PEW1 and PEW2 are 'ee'. Also, though you said that PEW1 had only REH parents - it couldn't have - otherwise it wouldn't be PEW? It must have had Light REH parents too (as only Light REHs carry the cp genes needed to make PEWs). Are you sure this one isn't a REW or the parents weren't full-colour REHs? Just a minor thing - but worth straightening out as we go along... The females are: Honey cream x1 PEW x7 Silver nutmeg x2 Dark honey x1 Very dark nutmeg x 1 Spotted nutmeg x1 The males are: PEW x2 Colourpoint agoutis x2 Sorry with the REH the parents of both PEWs (not related at all) one has extremely light REH and the other has light REH parents. With what I have now is there any way to breed out of the PEW situation I have? I dont plan on breeding the PEW males but I do want to breed the PEW females however and if I can what colours could i get from all the genetic I have?
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Post by betty on Dec 30, 2020 4:42:52 GMT -8
Well, you can use the PEW males in your early breeding to clear out the genes you need to know (because they only have pink-eye genes - so if you breed them to a dark-eyed colour female and don't get any pink-eyed pups - you will find out if they are PP and won't EVER produce pink-eyed pups).
And if you don't want to breed the PEW males at all - then you will take a lot longer to get where you want (because a male is taken up for a minimum of 2 months with each female if all goes to plan with the split intro, and then a month rest - so at full pelt without any hinderances or delays in splitting he can only realistically have 3 pairings a year) and won't be able to breed all your females as they can only have 2 pairings a year tops themselves - and with 2 males you can only breed 6 females a year maximum so you won't have time for second litters - which I thought was the whole point of your colour-breeding plans.
You will also need to hold back more gerbils in the early rounds as you are 'weeding out' the genes you do and don't want. So that means more specific pairings - but also more importantly - more tanks.
How many females do you have room to safely breed for their natural double litters and then how much space potentially for the additional colour-marked spare males and females. You will also need at least two separate ongoing split tanks and room for spare pups while they are waiting for homes.
Once we know the rate you have capacity for, we can thin out the gerbils you won't be able to get round to (with the least hopeful genes) and look at leaving them in pairs or splitting them together if they are odds and ends.
Breeding gerbils can soon get out of hand - so best not overstretch yourself otherwise it is only the gerbils that lose out.
Just to confirm - all the gerbils you mentioned above are in perfect health with no known health issues in the lines already? And also that you are registered with your gerbils at at least one local vet (ideally 2) that has a 24hour emergency service that you can easily access?
Perhaps, if you are happy for me to be your genetics mentor/breeding guide, we should take the bulk of this to PM as there could be a lot of tooing and froing with petty gene talk? Unless other forum folk would be interested in reading along of course?
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Post by Markpd on Dec 30, 2020 5:28:37 GMT -8
I'm curious as to what country you're in? (or a US state?) I'm in the UK, London area so there aren't many gerbils around and the few that are, are from pet shops which I want to avoid as much as absolutely possible What about rescue ctrs? Their are quite a few around or near London, e.g see this list.Btw, UK here too, west Surrey.
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Post by chsrlox on Dec 30, 2020 6:22:23 GMT -8
I'm in the UK, London area so there aren't many gerbils around and the few that are, are from pet shops which I want to avoid as much as absolutely possible What about rescue ctrs? Their are quite a few around or near London, e.g see this list.Btw, UK here too, west Surrey.
For breeding I need to breed with gerbils that have no known genetic diseases and I'd also like to know the temperaments of the parents to make sure the offspring are all healthy
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