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Post by southy on Jan 7, 2021 17:04:11 GMT -8
Ok please dont punish me for my haphazard gerbil breeding... 😠I bred 2 gerbils from pet stores a bit poorly prepared. Introduced them with no method and they got along great asap.
I have 2 10 gal tanks, a 20 gal and 3 10 gal tank toppers. And 2 plastic bins with mesh wire lids just in case.
Got the 2 sons (of 5) from 1st litter with dad, in 10 gal + tank topper.
Mom had 5 more (6 but 1 died, because it was buried i think). I left the 3 daughters in at 6 wks of age and they did great with helping mom, amd still are 🤔😳. Now the 1st litter is 13 weeks and the 2nd is 7 weeks....And I still have the 3 older daughters in... 😳 But they all still get along so well that I feel like I just want to keep them all there forever. jk... Mom with the 3 daughters and 5 tots is still in the 10gal tank with 10gal tank topper and the 3 daughters share 2 wheels. The tots wont run on them they are all very shy and not very active.
I think there is only 1 male in the 2nd litter. I am able to sex them after about 6 wks because the males have such a noticably large behind and they seem to grow faster than the females and I can also tell by their subtle behavior. Not sure what to do with him, I might introduce him to an older son of the 3 (dad and 2 sons), the one I may introduce him to is very docile.
I have been intending to put up a craigslist ad, print out ads to put on bulletins, and call my elementary school that originally got me into gerbils if they want 3 pairs of gerbils. But I have not gotten to any of that yet... So in a few weeks I will have a problem if I cannot give away 6-8 gerbils. 😱
I think 2 of the daughters are getting a bit too hyper. The 2nd litter is very shy and will not run on the wheels cause the 3 daughters always use them. But they still seem to get along well. One of the daughters however is territorial against the 3 males and very hyper.
Should I take 2 of the 3 older daughters out asap?
Are the 3 males ok as is?
Is it "ok" to introduce the only male of the 2nd litter to the docile son? (Dont have any way I can split tank them rn. And my experiences with introducing young gerbils to a older gerbil no method has went well 2 times so far.)
Any good websites for putting up ads to give gerbils to trusted people?
Yes I am sorry to the gerbil community for bringing life into this world ill prepared... But it has gone suprisingly well. Will post pictures later.
Thanks
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Post by betty on Jan 8, 2021 6:11:26 GMT -8
Hey southy - can you start by just listing who is with who - and in this one list - otherwise I am going to have to write charts all over the place to catch up! There is a lot going on here so it will make it easier to follow going forward if we have all their names. So is it: Tank A: 10 gallon + 10 gallon topper Dad 1 (insert name) Litter 1 - Son 1 (insert name) Litter 1 - Son 2 (insert name) Tank B: 10 gallon + 10 topper Mum 1 (insert name) Litter 1 - Daughter 1 (insert name) Litter 1 - Daughter 2 (insert name) Litter 1 - Daughter 3 (insert name) Litter 2 - Pup 1 (insert name or colour) Litter 2 - Pup 2 (insert name or colour) Litter 2 - Pup 3 (insert name or colour) Litter 2 - Pup 4 (insert name or colour) Litter 2 - Pup 5 (insert name or colour) Spare Tanks: Tank C - 20 gallons + 10 gallon topper Tank D - ?? gallons - plastic tub Tank E - ?? gallons - plastic tub Can you also list for us the gerbils who you are intending to keep for yourself after the second litter pups have weaned as that will really help with planning who goes with who. Also, males and females - and male pups to dads - go really well together without splits - which would be why you were lucky with those. You will be risking serious injury to your gerbils if you try this with gerbils who aren't either a) very young or b) closely related.
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Post by southy on Jan 8, 2021 15:50:40 GMT -8
Ok thanks betty I copied the list here.
Tank A: 10 gallon + 10 gallon topper Dad 1 (Burmese/Siamese with brownish tint "Junior" he turned out a bit hyper. I introduced him to mom when he was still growing. His brother was a fluffy BEW runt that would not grow, he died a month after I got them in August named Snowflake) Litter 1 - Son 1 (Burmese/Siamese like dad, fatter and fluffier and with a lighter grey tint, and is quite docile not as hyper he likes to just sit a lot like the 2nd litter "Dustball/Fluffy") Litter 1 - Son 2 (Black Eyed White "Snowball" hyper like dad)
Tank B: 10 gallon + 10 topper Mum 1 (Agouti with minimal patches "Muffin" I called her Speedy at first but now shes very lazy and fat. She was like 10 months old when I introduced her and Junior. I had introduced her to Scooter a beautiful light grey dove with patches and pink ears, when she was a tot but he died 😥) Litter 1 - Daughter 1 (Black "Ninja" and is hyper like dad and kind of territorial) Litter 1 - Daughter 2 (Black & White "Bandit" is hyper like Ninja I just saw her picking a little fight with Ninja) Litter 1 - Daughter 3 (Grey patches with full stripe on head and dark grey tail "Stripey/Angel" shes a bit calmer) Litter 2 - Pup 1 (Black & White, similar to Bandit) Litter 2 - Pup 2 (Black & White, more black than the others) Litter 2 - Pup 3 (Black & White with more white and full stripe on head. Might pair it with Stripey when I give them away) Litter 2 - Pup 4 (Agouti "Brownie" the smallest one) Litter 2 - Pup 5 (Grey and white like Stripey but with a patch not a full stripe "Baby Scooter/Stardust" I think he is the only male I am going to check him today)
Spare Tanks: Tank C - 20 gallons + 10 gallon topper Tank D - ?? gallons - plastic tub Tank E - ?? gallons - plastic tub
And I will probably get another 10 gal tank.
And I will post some photos when i can find a good image hosting site :/ I have a lot of great photos of them all
Thanks
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Post by Markpd on Jan 8, 2021 17:52:31 GMT -8
Imgur?
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Post by southy on Jan 8, 2021 19:22:43 GMT -8
Ok I found out the black & white one with the stripe is a male so now I may have a dilemma of having 6 females but 1 has to stay with mom so is it ok to keep 2 females with mom? Mom seems quite tired all the time so idk if she may die or if they might get along if she is always laying around. Maybe 1 female from 1st litter and 1 from the 2nd?
I have quite a dilemma in deciding on pairing & giving them away, ultimately I should just have 1 tank of gerbils in the end because I have been travelling in my car. Dont know why I did this lol... Covid had me thinking like, omg what if all the pet stores close for ever and I wont be able to find gerbils ever again :/
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Post by southy on Jan 8, 2021 19:35:07 GMT -8
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Post by Markpd on Jan 9, 2021 7:49:32 GMT -8
Some gorgeous photos there . Err, not all petshops are going to close forever, lol . And don't forget about breeders, best to get them from a good breeder than most petshops anyway.
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Post by betty on Jan 9, 2021 9:31:51 GMT -8
So, yes, in answer to your question - you can leave two females with the mum.
That leave you with different clans:
Dad + 2 male pups
Mum + 2 female pups
2 female pups 2 female pups 2 male pups
So, you already have enough enclosures to keep them all yourself?
I would also say that you have different colours there to what you have written in your list, so I am not the best with images - but I can certainly tell you the ones I can see - if you were interested. Looks like you have the gene got Siamese in several pups - quite an unusal one to identify. And if you dad was in image 2 though - he must be a Light Colourpoint Slate (rather than a Burmese) to carry that gene and produce the Siamese pup in image 10.
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Post by southy on Jan 9, 2021 13:09:38 GMT -8
So, yes, in answer to your question - you can leave two females with the mum. That leave you with different clans: Dad + 2 male pups Mum + 2 female pups 2 female pups 2 female pups 2 male pups So, you already have enough enclosures to keep them all yourself? I would also say that you have different colours there to what you have written in your list, so I am not the best with images - but I can certainly tell you the ones I can see - if you were interested. Looks like you have the gene got Siamese in several pups - quite an unusal one to identify. And if you dad was in image 2 though - he must be a Light Colourpoint Slate (rather than a Burmese) to carry that gene and produce the Siamese pup in image 10. Great thank you Im going to give away 6 of them then. Not sure where or to who yet though. Although the gray and white (pied lilac or dove?) male id like to keep but I should keep the 2 parents. 😠So I will give away 4 females and the 2 male pups. Can you identify what the grey and white pups are? The moms deceased mate I think he was a pied dove he had pink ears and a light tail and was more blueish grey. The 2 grey children are more darker and brownish with dark grey ears and tails. I think the black & whites are pied black? And the brown pup is agouti. She has a subtly blackish nose like the dad and less white on the belly than mom. The son who looks like the dad is a bit lighter and greyer while the dad is browner. The white one is black eyed white? And the mom is pied Agouti but her white patches is minimal.
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Post by southy on Jan 9, 2021 13:17:00 GMT -8
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Post by southy on Jan 9, 2021 13:41:45 GMT -8
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Post by betty on Jan 10, 2021 5:45:11 GMT -8
I haven't looked at the colours yet - and perhaps Shooting Star would be more help there visually? But can you just check and clarify the following comments for me to help me out: Although the gray and white (pied lilac or dove?) male I'd like to keep but I should keep the 2 parents. 😠Ideally as a long-term breeder you would always keep all/most of your own breeding stock in the early days to make sure your lines were healthy their whole life as the parents would be good indicators of your lines - however, if it was just a one off there would be no reason why you couldn't home a father and son or mother and daughter to a trusted friend. Can you identify what the grey and white pups are? I will have a look at hte pictures shortly - but I am not very confident from images (unless I have all the gene info) whereas other breeders can tell by ear colour and things much better than I can and who will hopefully chip in.The moms deceased mate I think he was a pied dove he had pink ears and a light tail and was more blueish grey. Is the first litter from the first mate - and the second litter from the second mate? When you said her first mate died I assumed that was before the pups (so hos colour and genes have nothing to do with working out the pup colours. Are you saying that the first litter pups with the Burmese dad aren't his offspring?I think the black & whites are pied black? Pied is just a description for the percentage of white on a gerbil and varies slightly depending on the judges. Collared is one side I think - and variagated is the other - perhaps someone knows a bit more about the distinctions with spotting? I would have to look it up. Genetically thought they are just still black in colour and genes.And the brown pup is agouti. She has a subtly blackish nose like the dad and less white on the belly than mom. How much less white - if it isn't like a bright white band from neck to undertummy they might be a Nutmeg instead as you have the nutmeg genes in there (as shown in the BEWs).
I do love a puzzle!!!
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Post by southy on Jan 10, 2021 19:43:26 GMT -8
I haven't looked at the colours yet - and perhaps Shooting Star would be more help there visually? But can you just check and clarify the following comments for me to help me out: Although the gray and white (pied lilac or dove?) male I'd like to keep but I should keep the 2 parents. 😠Ideally as a long-term breeder you would always keep all/most of your own breeding stock in the early days to make sure your lines were healthy their whole life as the parents would be good indicators of your lines - however, if it was just a one off there would be no reason why you couldn't home a father and son or mother and daughter to a trusted friend. Can you identify what the grey and white pups are? I will have a look at hte pictures shortly - but I am not very confident from images (unless I have all the gene info) whereas other breeders can tell by ear colour and things much better than I can and who will hopefully chip in.The moms deceased mate I think he was a pied dove he had pink ears and a light tail and was more blueish grey. Is the first litter from the first mate - and the second litter from the second mate? When you said her first mate died I assumed that was before the pups (so hos colour and genes have nothing to do with working out the pup colours. Are you saying that the first litter pups with the Burmese dad aren't his offspring?I think the black & whites are pied black? Pied is just a description for the percentage of white on a gerbil and varies slightly depending on the judges. Collared is one side I think - and variagated is the other - perhaps someone knows a bit more about the distinctions with spotting? I would have to look it up. Genetically thought they are just still black in colour and genes.And the brown pup is agouti. She has a subtly blackish nose like the dad and less white on the belly than mom. How much less white - if it isn't like a bright white band from neck to undertummy they might be a Nutmeg instead as you have the nutmeg genes in there (as shown in the BEWs).
I do love a puzzle!!! The dad is the Colorpoint/Burmese of all of them. I was just showing how similar her deceased (childless) mate looked to her dove/sapphire/lilac pied son. I think the 2 grey ones inherited the dads dark tail ears & nose. The son also has kind of a darker grey patch on his back. The agouti has more black and is more grey than mom. Mom has more nutmeg/yellow orangeish color that might be where the white son got it I think he is a colorpoint nutmeg rather than BEW cause he has the black ticking And had a dark patch on his tail. He has black nails and black butt also. edit, the brother of the dad was a BEW. and he was genetically defected i think. some kind of gerbil dwarfism. But all the babies were normal. I wonder if that defect will show up again if I breed a pup Well my main question is what am I going to do with them all I put up a craigslist ad. Maybe I will ask Petco and some schools. I am worried about what Im going to do with them. 😰 I did not intend to breed like a pro I was just kind of screwing around with fate I guess. But I got some nice colors and its interesting to see how the parents genes mixed. It seems like there are a lot more unique variations than can be labelled. I dont intend to breed again tbh. Im not in a good place in life to be doing it really, but I learned that it was quite easy. I hope I can find people who will take some of them.
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Post by southy on Jan 10, 2021 19:51:19 GMT -8
Btw at what age do more than 2-3 females start declanning? Ive still got the 9 in there, moved them to the 20gal and i can put an you&me tank topper on there. The 2 sons are about 8wks so I should remove them before they try to mate. Will the older 3 daughters get along for a while since the others are pups?
edit, I also cannot keep most of them except 1 tank in the long run. Because I am travelling between states. If any one from FL to SC wants some gerbils
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Post by betty on Jan 11, 2021 3:11:21 GMT -8
Well southy, you have said that at least you know you are planning on homing out 3 pairs of them - all pups - and you have enough spare enclosures for them all until you home them - that is the best place to start. Pups that are being sold as just a pair are best removed from the family anywhere between 8 to 12 weeks - so yes, pull out the two males into their own enclosure in the next week for sure. I would imagine they would be easier to home if you sell them with your enclosures too - and then once less thing for you to be carrying about. The two pairs of females can also be taken out in the next week too if you want to home them soon - but certainly in the next month either way. It is always best I feel (from other people experiences) to have had a young pair live on their own before homing. Mum and older sisters are always boss in the main group, and so when you remove just 2 - it takes them a while to settle down into their own blanced clan. You never know if you are taking out two gerbils that are friends or not really - so it helps to have them be settled before the upheavel of a new home too. That way in the next few weeks mum can finally relax with just a few daughters instead of a crowd! Ultimately you can also home out one of the parent clans too. If you are doing it sooner - then safest for the dad to be homed I would say. However, if you don't home them for another month or so - then either trio would be fine to home. And yes, it is all to easy to get gerbils to breed - almost 100% hit rate - so anyone tinkering will get pups. This is the biggest problem in the gerbil world. If only they were more like duprasi... Anyway, the oops market is huge - poor people having to cope with mis-sexed new pets a litter of pups and buying new enclosures instead of enjoying cuddles. Always sad. Also though - I am sure at their age - the male conkers are easy to see - but if there was one or two who you weren't sure about sexing - do simply pop an image on here and we can confirm. Just to be super sure.
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