|
Post by Thelodar on Jan 8, 2022 6:01:57 GMT -8
That is young, sad to hear . But thanks for the info, I can complete another entry for you now (as below). Thelodar's gerbils Eliza and Felicity Clan size - 2 Relationship - sisters Age at beginning of clan - from birth Age at end of clan - 1yr 3 mths (Felicity died) Cage size - 20g > 40g Declanned? - no Can you just edit it to say Eliza is the one who died, not Felicity. Thanks!
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Jan 8, 2022 9:05:24 GMT -8
Opps! Sorry, will do.
|
|
|
Post by icecontroller2529 on Jan 13, 2022 9:53:58 GMT -8
Great thread! Here is my contribution:
Clan size - 2
Relationship – not sure, got them the same day from the same breeder but probably not related
Gender - female
Age at beginning of clan – not sure, maybe around 8 weeks
Age at end of clan – first declanning signs at the age of 5 months, final declanning at the age of 10 months
And/or, time together – They’ve been together for 8 months
Cage size - 120 x 50 x 50 cm
Declanned? - yes
Aggravating factor(s) – not sure, but there might have been multiple factors (see below)
Further explanations:
Analysing the situation in retrospect, I see the following factors that might have contributed to the declanning.
• The gerbils might not have been bonded / not have known each other before coming to us. The breeder never gave information about anything. The breeder produces a lot of quantity, so these two might just have been paired up randomly (out of many gerbil pups) shortly before they came to us. We observed that they didn’t seem close, they went their own ways.
• One gerbil had clear mental issues from the beginning. From the very first day, she displayed stereotypical behaviour (obsessive-compulsive corner digging, furious ripping at the hemp mats on the glass plateau) and didn’t show much interest in bonding with the other one. This gerbil was also the one who developed territorial behaviour later and started chasing and attacking the other gerbil.
• We might have given them too much room in the beginning by letting them use the entire tank (120 x 50 x 50 cm) straight away instead of limiting their space first.
• We might have given them too many toys from the beginning, leading to territorial behaviour.
• We might have arranged the tank in an unfavourable way: There were different areas that were clearly separated from each other and could only be entered at one point, via a bridge/ramp.
• When changing the bedding in the beginning, we did keep quite a lot of the old bedding. But we put most of the old bedding at the bottom of the tank and only a smaller part on top which probably was a mistake.
It might be that the conditions were not ideal, plus we made some beginners' mistakes, so it all added up. I have a gut feeling that these two gerbils would never have been friends anyway, but we'll never know.
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Jan 14, 2022 12:19:29 GMT -8
Thank you for a very detailed, clear and nicely laid out contribution icecontroller And it does sound like they weren't a good pairing from the get-go.
And thanks , I hope this thread will gather some really useful info over time, feel free to hit the like button for the op (opening post) seeing as you like this thread (and anyone else).
|
|
|
Post by megsgerbils on Jan 15, 2022 14:06:43 GMT -8
Clan size - 2 Relationship - Unrelated, both rescued from PaH and were alone Gender(s) - Female Age at beginning of clan - 9 months and 3/4 months Age at end of clan - 1 year 7 months and 1 year 1/2 months. The youngest one passed away suddenly, we believe from a stroke. And/or, time together - Split cage intro for 7 weeks, successfully bonded for 8 months Cage size - 3 foot x 1 foot fish tank with a topper for wheel Declanned? - No Aggravating factor(s) - N/A
We allowed the remaining gerbil time to grieve, then rescued another lone female of the same age and did a split cage intro which was successful. They are now living together in the 3 foot x 1 foot tank and we will be building a larger topper soon to allow space for the sand bath (as they end up filling it with bedding at the moment, haha!)
Following clan ongoing.
Clan size - 2 Relationship - Sisters Gender(s) - Female Age at beginning of clan - From birth Age at end of clan - A fall out at 7 months (chasing, sleeping apart) but successfully rebonded with split tank). A few recent fall outs (they are now aged 1 year 4 months) that have included some awful chasing but thankfully no biting or blood being drawn. We split caged them as soon as we saw the violent chasing to prevent either of them becoming injured. Successfully reintroduced them each time and they are currently getting on well (grooming, sleeping in the same nest, appearing calm and content). These girls’ fall outs have become more regular over the last few months. If they continue in this cycle we will be putting them in a permanent split with wire mesh in the tank and toppers that have a single sheet of wire mesh, so they can have as much contact as they like. We may try and rebond them but have decided that so much falling out is likely to be stressful for them both so would be giving them at least a few weeks if not months apart for them both to settle down.
And/or, time together - All of their lives, with 4 fall outs that have resulted in being rebonded via split cage. No fallouts drew blood and all were solely violent chasing, sleeping apart and failed attempts at biting one another. Cage size - IKEA Detolf (4+ foot in length and over 1 foot in width) Declanned? - Yes, but have been rebonded. Will see how it goes. Aggravating factor(s) - One gerbil is noticeably bigger than her sister. We have wondered if she has decided she wants to be the dominant one and has challenged her sister for this due to her larger size. Being in heat also seems to aggravate things. A good few of the fall outs have been whilst one gerbil has been in heat. With these two we have noticed that one is very “needy” and struggles to entertain herself. She will bother her sister to the point where her sister will lash out in a “leave me alone!” Way via chasing or pushing and shoving. Her sister is the opposite and could entertain herself for hours. They have plenty of toilet roll tubes, cardboard, digging space etc. The “neediness” of one gerbil seems to contribute to the fallouts, as her sister seems to get fed up of her constant pestering. We’ll see how they go and only want the best for them. In all honesty, I think this will end in a declan, but whilst they are together and happy we will monitor them.
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Jan 16, 2022 4:57:55 GMT -8
Thanks for the contribution megsgerbils . Just to confirm, for the 1st clan you listed, when you wrote '3/4' months, I take it you meant 3-4 months and not 0.75 months? And same with 1/2 months = 1-2 months? I won't include your 2nd entry at the moment as it's an ongoing story, but certainly keep us posted with how they get on. And with that number of falling out and re-intro's I'd be inclined to keep them in a permanent split after a 2nd declan, even if they haven't drawn blood. Although I am coloured by my boys hard declann a few months ago, would be worth getting other peoples opinion too in a new thread (if you haven't already).
|
|
|
Post by megsgerbils on Jan 29, 2022 14:10:21 GMT -8
Thanks for the contribution megsgerbils . Just to confirm, for the 1st clan you listed, when you wrote '3/4' months, I take it you meant 3-4 months and not 0.75 months? And same with 1/2 months = 1-2 months? I won't include your 2nd entry at the moment as it's an ongoing story, but certainly keep us posted with how they get on. And with that number of falling out and re-intro's I'd be inclined to keep them in a permanent split after a 2nd declan, even if they haven't drawn blood. Although I am coloured by my boys hard declann a few months ago, would be worth getting other peoples opinion too in a new thread (if you haven't already). Thanks Mark, that’s correct, I meant 3-4 months and 1-2 months. Thank you, they’ve actually been really good since the last fall out some weeks ago. Sleeping together, grooming, generally getting along. I’ve added more toys to keep them busy and all seems well. The falling outs are very short lived which I find really strange. They managed 9 solid months with no trouble, then had 3 fall outs in the space of the last 3 months. Bizzare! All well at the moment though and we have our fingers crossed. Having spoken to my boyfriend about their behaviour it seems most issues start when one is in heat, but having a hard time of it. Most of the time when they’re in heat they’re quite ‘excitable’ and try and hump the other gerbil, but will happily keep themselves busy when I put extra cardboard in for them. Though sometimes they seem to have a ‘bad’ head cycle and are really restless and agitated on the day they’re in heat. This seems to be when arguments begin to start! It makes sense, but there’s just not enough research on gerbils to know if this is normal!
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Feb 22, 2022 12:23:12 GMT -8
As for me - age at end of clan - I could probably look this up for most of them if I have a spare few hours - and edit it in to my original post - but you will need to gently remind me every few weeks incase it slips my mind. It will quite a task. ...... A much belated reminder Maybe you could just add a couple at a time so as not to take a large amount of your time in 1 go? Reminder (a bit more than a few weeks, but hey ).
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Feb 22, 2022 13:29:49 GMT -8
It turned out their was an accounting error on page 2 which was carried over, I've since corrected the stats on p4 and in the op. A little update. A breakdown of the stats for pairs:- 1 pair of brothers didn't declan 1 pair of unrelated males didn't declan 3 pairs of brothers declanned (mine, ps25's and zb's) 1 pair of unrelated males declanned 6 pairs of sisters didn't declan 6 unrelated pairs of females didn't declan 2 pairs of females declanned (1 pair mother and daughter) 2 mixed pairs, both with neutered males, didn't declan
Total of 32+ pairs.
26+ pairs didn't declann, (including 10 pairs info that couldn't be broken down due to insufficient info, but none declanned).
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 27, 2022 13:16:11 GMT -8
Clan size - 2 Relationship - unrelated Gender(s) - females Age at beginning of clan - 2yrs 10 mths & 5 wks old Age at end of clan - 3yrs 3mths (deceased) & 5 months old And/or, time together - 4 mths Cage size - 100x50x60+ full size topper Declanned? - no
2 unrelated females. Introduced when the older gerbil was 2 years 10 months old and the younger was 5 weeks old. They lived in a 100x50x60cm tank with a topper of equivalent size. They lived together for nearly four months, until the older gerbil died. They didn't declan. The introduction initially seemed difficult because the pup seemed really assertive. However she calmed down as she grew up and she surprisingly didn't grow into a particularly assertive adult, she is actually very skittish. Her story will continue once she is introduced to a new gerbil. Towards the end of the older gerbil's life, I removed access to the topper as I noticed she seemed unhappy and insecure and there were little moments of tension between the gerbils, so I felt a smaller/simpler space would be easier for her.
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Apr 28, 2022 13:47:26 GMT -8
Thanks for the update LilyandDaisy, I'm glad they got on in the end in their short time together.
|
|
|
Post by ps25 on Sept 5, 2022 10:06:36 GMT -8
Clan size - 3 Relationship - mother & 2 daughters Age at beginning of clan - mother 18 mths old Age at end of trio clan - mother 3yrs 3mths (deceased), daughters ~21 mths Cage size - ? Declanned? - no
I can report another one for the "didn't declan" tally - female trio, mother and two daughters. Mother was 18 months when she gave birth to the two daughters, who are now 2 years old. Mother passed away earlier this summer. There were some tensions between the two daughters earlier this year due to a tank topper (I posted about that in a different thread) but after I removed the topper all 3 of them settled down again and continued to live together until the Mum passed away.
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Sept 5, 2022 11:08:03 GMT -8
Good to hear they got on after removing the topper . Sorry to hear you lost the mother though, and thanks for giving us an end of the (trio) clan report.
And that's now 2 reports of toppers causing tension.
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Dec 6, 2022 19:23:57 GMT -8
Clan size - 2 Relationship - unrelated Gender(s) - females Age at beginning of clan - 6 mths, 9 weeks old Age at end of clan - 1yr, 8 mths old And/or, time together - 6 mths Cage size - 120x60x50 Declanned? - no Aggravating factor(s) - none, but not together long
Two unrelated females, Tilly and Wispa. I started introducing them when Tilly was 6 months old and Wispa was 9 weeks old. They were successfully introduced 5 weeks later. Sadly they both died when Tilly was nearly a year old and Wispa was 8 months old. They lived in a 120x60x50cm enclosure, and they didn't declan, though they weren't together very long.
|
|
|
Post by iamplankton on Dec 7, 2022 0:43:11 GMT -8
I currently have 4 females that I adopted.
2 are sisters who were with a male (mis-sexed by petshop as they sold him as female - he actually died and the family didn’t realise he was a male and didn’t know the females were pregnant by that point!) Then both sisters gave birth within a week or so of each other in April, and the family kept one female from each sisters litter so there are 4 of them in the clan now and they have been that way since the daughters were born in April so they are 8 months and the original sisters/mums are around a year or so apparently. They were in a 20 gallon tank but now live in the rather large PawHut which is around 95 gallons or something like that and have bare minimum for now whilst I watch and observe, however for now they are still doing everything together and are just so bonded it’s unreal. I will keep this updated periodically as I think this is a rather interesting clan to watch.
|
|