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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 14, 2021 5:14:22 GMT -8
Hi guys, help me, Tokyo finally delivered her babies but there’s a problem. Two pups are in one house and another one is in the other house. Now tokyo is making a nest in the house where’s s one pup. What should I do? Hazel, her sister, is staying with the babies in the other house and she’s squeaking. Somebody? I’m really worried about Tokyo’s pups, they are so tiny😳 Tokyo still has a little belly but I’m worried about that one pup who is in the l house while tokyo is working there, should ai separate the sisters? Should I take the pup?
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Post by Markpd on Jan 14, 2021 10:08:21 GMT -8
Afraid I don't have experience or much knowledge with new born pups, so I can't help you much there, but I'll ping a few people for you to hopefully speed things up. Has she not carried them all to one nest? [edit] sorry misread it, didn't realise the sister was still in, watch her with the pups like a hawk incase she gets hostile with them! It won't take long for them to get too cold, if she still hasn't, in desperation I would move the pups to her and hope she doesn't mind you handling them (perhaps rubbing you hands in the bedding 1st might help??). betty Shooting Star beachbumgerbils catnut et al.
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 14, 2021 11:01:48 GMT -8
Thank you markpd, I hope they’ll survive. I separated hazel from her sister so Tokyo can take care of her pups but hazel is very scared and I’m wondering if I could let her back in like a week?
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Post by Markpd on Jan 14, 2021 12:11:20 GMT -8
Not in a week no, as I mentioned in my PM, if gerbils are separated for more than a couple of days or so, they will need to be introduced via a split cage method (as they forget each other!), and I think you would have to wait until the pups have gone. (Someone else correct me if I'm wrong) If, mighty big IF,if it's safe to put her back in with mum and pups it would have to be done ASAP, within 24hrs of separation I guess? But it really might not be, we need to hear from the more experienced people tbh. How long was the sister with the mum and pups before you removed her and how was she behaving?
Btw, in the PM you said she's moved all pups to 1st nest and was suckling right?
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 14, 2021 13:27:48 GMT -8
Yeah, she moved all the pups to one place and she’s staying with them. When the pups were out, mom’s sister stayed with her like an hour until I moved her. At the beginning Hazel was a little nervous maybe cause Tokyo was having pups so she was digging trying to make a nest in their plastic house. Once Tokyo had her first pup Hazel took care pf the first one in the other house and I think it’s kind of complicated but Tokyo delivered the other pups in the plastic house and after a few minutes when I wanted to check on the other pup with Hazel it wasn’t there anymore and I assume that she took to her mother because there wasn’t blood or something. After 10 minutes of digging and disturbing Tokyo, Hazel went to the other place, sleeping for like 20 maybe more until I took her. Then Tokyo moved her pups there. Hope you understood my whole complicated explication:))
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Post by betty on Jan 14, 2021 15:28:31 GMT -8
OK - so I have replied to your PM tokyoandhazel. However, please try to always update in this main thread (even if you do seperate pms) so we are all following the same step by step so don't give the wrong advice at a crucial stage. So, as far as I can tell, the mum is with the pups and they are all in one nest (and you are 100% sure it is the right mum) and the other female is in a completely seperate enclosure where they can't smell each other? Can you just confirm again if this other female is or isn't showing signs of being pregnant herself. What is her last possible due date (22 days after she last was with the male - or 22 days after you got her yourself if you can't be sure of the whole male thing).
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 14, 2021 22:54:04 GMT -8
Thanks betty. As far as I know the pups are with the correct mum and her sister is in another place where they can’t smell each other. I bought them last Thursday and I don’t think Hazel is pregnant and I don’t know for sure which of them dominate. I’m thinking about a meeting between them two in the cage. I am 80% sure that Hazel will went to the pups because there’s here favorite home. I’ll tell how it’s going. Sorry if I wasn’t clear with the thread from yesterday. I want to keep all the pups alive so if hazel won’t let Tokyo alone I’ll figure something out because the box isn’t the best place for her, trying to escape last night.
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 15, 2021 0:19:03 GMT -8
I just let Hazel and Tokyo meet and first they where checking each other, more like smelling. Then Hazel stayed with the pups and Tokyo went to the sand box. I’m not sure if that’s normal, Tokyo has half open eyes and sometimes she doesn’t even open them, maybe just a little. I was right, they are sleeping together but I don’t see anything wrong with the pups and Hazel, she is very careful with Tokyo’s pups.
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 15, 2021 0:23:21 GMT -8
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Post by betty on Jan 15, 2021 4:33:28 GMT -8
Ok - well then - let's hope they all stay together and are all one big happy family!
It can happen that certain combinations of females work out well as shared parents - but it is never 100% certain either way. It all depends on their individual dynamics.
Fingers crossed...
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Post by Markpd on Jan 15, 2021 5:53:52 GMT -8
Yea hope it all goes well, I'd be watching them like a hawk constantly for a while if I were you, not sure how long for though? What do you reckon betty? Would an hour be enough, or 6hrs?? Or is tokyoandhazel in near totally uncharted territories?
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 15, 2021 7:57:36 GMT -8
Hi, I hope they’ll stay together in a good way. I’ve been watching them when I stayed to my online classes (6 hours) and they were sleeping all in the same bed (the tent). I went to them now and Hazel was sleeping while Tokyo fed the pups. I think they make a good team together. When Tokyo goes to eat, Hazel stays with the little gerbils, I think, making sure they are warm. I still think Tokyo is tired since she gave birth to these little creatures😍
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Post by betty on Jan 16, 2021 6:50:05 GMT -8
Yes, it can be tiring - and that is why we always leave the male in for litters - to make it easier for mum. Putting in a ledge with a comfy spot for mum when they start moving around is also a good plan - as once they are running around (from 10 days on) - she can't get away from them on ground level...
So for now then it is just watching them and listening out for any unusual noises incase one of the mums starts bullying them (although you can't always hear it anyway). Gerbil pups are virtually impossible to hand-rear under 2 weeks old, so it is really all in their own hands now.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 16, 2021 9:14:38 GMT -8
tokyoandhazel How are they doing today?
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Post by Shooting Star on Jan 16, 2021 10:24:42 GMT -8
Unfortunately, if you choose to keep Hazel with the pups, you'll have to keep a close eye on them the entire time the pups are growing. That early behavior of stealing a pup away from mom is a huge red flag. That's one of the ways having a second adult female in the mix can go wrong: a non-lactating female keeps one or more pups away from the lactating female, and the pups starve. At any point, Hazel could go back to this behavior, or even start outright attacking pups.
There's also a large chance Hazel herself is pregnant; if so, her behavior towards Tokyo's pups could change as she gets closer to her own delivery. I strongly recommend you get a second setup for Hazel now, and move her to it. (It sounds like you only have a temporary container right now?) If Hazel gives birth where she is now, most likely all heck will break loose, up to and including the death of all the pups and/or a mother.
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