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Post by Markpd on Jan 19, 2021 5:24:11 GMT -8
You'd have to ask Shooting star or others, but from her post I quoted I get the impression it's more a change of behaviour as a result of having pups than forgetting previous partners, but I'm just guessing at the latter point, so maybe your strategy could work??
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 19, 2021 9:00:19 GMT -8
I hope it’ll work with this way🤞 Hazel is very exited about her new cage but I saw she’s staying more in her bedding area, maybe because she’s tired? The pups are still small but I think they are growing a little. Thursday they are making one week old😍
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jan 19, 2021 9:50:49 GMT -8
I think the safest option (and least stressful for all involved) would be to consider Tokyo and Hazel separated for good now, unfortunately. Once the pups have grown up you can leave a female in with each mother. Daily meetings will cause them both stress, which isn't what a nursing mother and pregnant gerbil need.
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 19, 2021 12:01:58 GMT -8
Augh, I think you are right with the stress think. When I bought them I really didn’t want to keep them in different places, but for the moment, how you suggested me, I’ll keep them away until the pups are 6 weeks old, then i will see what’s next, maybe I will try to reunite them again, maybe there’s a chance to remember they are sisters-hopefully
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Post by beachbumgerbils on Jan 20, 2021 5:56:36 GMT -8
It is not only stressful, but dangerous to routinely introduce 2 females that aren't living together and are mothers. They aren't going to see each other as sisters and friends any more. They aren't going to smell familiar any more living in separate spaces with their own pups. They are each going to be the matriarch of their own family clan and they will likely butt heads, violently.
This doesn't mean that they have to be alone forever. As you wean the pups, leave a daughter in with each mother. That is generally a very stable, very happy pairing and you won't have to worry about a long, possibly complicated split cage re-introduction of Tokyo and Hazel.
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 20, 2021 6:28:46 GMT -8
Thank you, then I’ll think about leaving a girl with each mom but I have to assure that they both have at least a girl. Today the pups are making 6 days old, I’ll leave a photo with one of the pups which I think will be like her mom (color I mean). If a pup’s skin is darker, does it means that his hair will be darker? Their father was a darker honey and their mom, as you know, is a lighter honey I guess? I know there are zero chances, but is it possible that one pup could be darker than the others, like gray? Or maybe another pup to have white spots on his brown skin? ibb.co/FnwKZn6ibb.co/2gB2ZFp
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jan 20, 2021 7:06:42 GMT -8
I think all gerbils have the same colour skin but the darker colouration you can see on some pups is the darker hair growing through. It's less visible on the lighter haired pups.
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Post by beachbumgerbils on Jan 20, 2021 12:16:00 GMT -8
Without knowing the genetics of both parents, it's hard to guess how the pups will turn out. You'll just have to wait and see how the fur comes in! If mom or dad is spotted, then the pups could be and it is usually obvious from a very young age. If mom and dad were both solid, then the pups skin should be a uniform color. I can't say I've ever had any pups that looked like they had freckles.
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 21, 2021 3:56:06 GMT -8
Understood, so the probability for the pups is like 100% to be brown. Sooo, I have a good news, Hazel is now delivering her babies, they are do small, hope they’ll be fine. Two hours ago she gave some signs like getting hay to her bed, nothing more. ibb.co/TR23sLCibb.co/s6zyW6b
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 21, 2021 4:19:12 GMT -8
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Post by betty on Jan 21, 2021 6:13:26 GMT -8
Adorable - looks like there might be some ee gerbabies in there (possibly Silver Nutmegs/Polar Fox, Grey Agouti maybe and RE Creams). I am not very good at pictures, but the dark ears and pale pigment usually menas a grey/cream ee colour) and the pale without dark ears have pink eyes, so could be creams or gingers?
I can't remember what you said the parents were - will look back and check as that wil certainly help.
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Post by betty on Jan 21, 2021 6:42:42 GMT -8
Ah mum was Argente (Fawn possibly) - so dad had dark eyes. If it was the same dad for Hazel and he was ee - then all their pups will be ee too (Honeys and Nutmegs) as it is a gene combo they both share. If there was more than one male with them - them they could be any colour!!!
And the pink-eyed gingers are usually the last ones to colour up - so stay whitey-pink for the longest time after the other have all got colours.
And as said above my many people about the mums - it really would be safest for all the gerbils if you assume that the mums won't ever go back together.
This is really the only safe option for the mums - and it would be extremely risky if you were keepping any female pups too - as you would be mixing two existing clans - which is always regarded as being VERY risky and is never recommended by any caring breeder.
Gerbils don't work the same way as humans - or other communal mammals - they have different priorities. Having life-long friends they don't live with just isn't something that crosses their mind in the same way as us humans. In the wild - it is all about survival of them and their pups - so it is best to assume that if your gerbils aren't living with another gerbil - they aren't family - and don't need to stay friends. Gerbils (in a clan) meeting up for playtime with other gerbil (already in another clan) just isn't the done thing - it almost always triggers a defensive behaviour either with the gerbil they meet or the gerbils back in their clan.
However saying all this is only from my own experiences - and avoidance.
I NEVER want my gerbils to risk injuring themselves so I have stopped or never ever tried some of the things you are suggesting. So, in theory they could be fine - but in practice - they almost always aren't.
My recommendations are always the safest options for the animals - so if you want my recommendation from now on - it would be Tokyo and pup in one new clan, and Hazel and pup in another new seperate clan. The mums would never share the same space again.
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Post by tokyoandhazel on Jan 21, 2021 11:50:41 GMT -8
Oh my, so that’s it, changing plans. Well, that’s going to be a good story for the future, taking care of 12 or more gerbils (still don’t know how many are in Hazel’s cage. To answer your question betty, there was just one male with my girls. I don’t mind if they will have the same colors, but if I have a Grey Agouti gerbil I will keep her. Tokyo is very very active and when I say very I mean a lot active than she was last weeks. She knows when I’m going to open her gate and she’s like “Yaaay! You’re finally here” getting out of her cage and coming to me. Today she trusted me and came up on my hand, I was so happy knowing that I earned Tokyo’s trust and that she ate an apple yesterday:)).
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Post by betty on Jan 21, 2021 15:07:09 GMT -8
Great that she is becoming more friendly too - that must be nice to feel involved in her new motherhood?
And yes, could easily be 10 pups between them - possibly more? Looks like you need to be finding a few new homes for them already then - once we sex them you can finalise the details about who is best with who and who is best to keep with mums.
The pictures are great by the way - always lovely to see pups...
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Post by Markpd on Jan 21, 2021 17:08:23 GMT -8
She knows when I’m going to open her gate and she’s like “Yaaay! You’re finally here” getting out of her cage and coming to me. Today she trusted me and came up on my hand, I was so happy knowing that I earned Tokyo’s trust and that she ate an apple yesterday ).Aww that's lovely! and you haven't even had her that long have you? I'm so jealous!
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