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Post by PipSqueak on Jan 19, 2021 15:27:30 GMT -8
I have been doing some research on coconut oil for gerbils and if it is safe and if it has any health benefits for them. According to online coconut oil is safe for them but I haven’t found much on if it can have any health benefits or if it can have benefits to their fur. Does anyone know anything about this?
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Post by Scott on Jan 22, 2021 5:02:48 GMT -8
Any reason you are thinking coconut oil in particular? I'd imagine that nuts in general would have a similar nutritional profile, except that the other nuts would be lower in saturated fat, which generally a good thing whether you're a gerbil or a human. And if we're going with the idea that it's best to match what gerbils would eat in the wild... well, coconuts are probably not that.
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Post by PipSqueak on Jan 22, 2021 5:34:59 GMT -8
Any reason you are thinking coconut oil in particular? I'd imagine that nuts in general would have a similar nutritional profile, except that the other nuts would be lower in saturated fat, which generally a good thing whether you're a gerbil or a human. And if we're going with the idea that it's best to match what gerbils would eat in the wild... well, coconuts are probably not that. There’s not really any particular reason why I was thinking coconut oil. I was honestly just wondering.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Jan 22, 2021 5:37:21 GMT -8
Scott - but in reality, most things we give them aren't from the wild...? Like, they don't have most of what's in their food in the wild and it's still safe. Even the more natural homemade mixes won't have everything from the wild. I do give Rolo nuts and she loves them, but I'd like to try coconut oil if it's possible to give it to them (which I didn't know until now) because I know how good it is for humans.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Jan 22, 2021 5:38:24 GMT -8
I'd say go for it, I think I'll give a tiny bit to Rolo now and see if she likes it
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jan 22, 2021 9:56:00 GMT -8
I've fed coconut flesh very occasionally but never coconut oil. I assume it would be safe but not sure if there are any benefits.
On hamster forums people recommend linseeds and/or evening primrose oil for improving skin and fur condition.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Jan 22, 2021 10:15:34 GMT -8
I kind of just gave it to Rolo as a treat, wasn't too desperate for it to have amazing benefits (but she loved it) but if PipSqueak is looking for that then the linseeds and primrose oil sound great
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Post by Markpd on Jan 22, 2021 14:32:44 GMT -8
Millet seeds which are sometimes at least in gerbil food, are one of their natural foods, here's a small (incomplete) list I made of some natural gerbil foods mentioned in a few research papers (Wang et al and Argen IIRC).
Mongolian gerbils mainly feed on the foliage of:- Artemisia sieversiana (Wormwood, daisey family), Salsola (spp = multiple species, Saltwort)., Setaria viridis (Wild foxtail millet, predecessor of Setaria italica Foxtail millet, a small grain crop) and Leymus chinensis (Poaceae)(False wheatgrass, wild rye, Sheepgrass(US?), Chinese rye grass) (Ågren et al., 1989a),
Oh, and a variety of Hemp grows in their natural habitat too, but I don't recall which variety, nor if they actually eat it.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jan 22, 2021 14:50:04 GMT -8
Markpd I think I read that wild gerbils might also find goji berries at certain times of the year. According to Egerbil they would eat parts of the hemp plant. It's also interesting that the website says they have different burrow chambers to store different kinds of food. I remember Lily at one point used to maintain several hoards in different parts of the tank and when hoarding her food would run off seemingly randomly to one hoard, then to another with the next bit of food. I never worked out if she had any kind of criteria for which foods went in which hoard.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 22, 2021 15:08:36 GMT -8
Hey that's awesome that Lily did the natural thing! I remember you saying she was a hoarder Oh and yes, Goji berries too! I found that out from Erin's ark and her food (although I haven't confirmed it elsewhere). Interesting about hemp, I think I have read that before, but forgotten about it
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Post by Scott on Jan 22, 2021 15:24:46 GMT -8
Scott - but in reality, most things we give them aren't from the wild...? Like, they don't have most of what's in their food in the wild and it's still safe. Even the more natural homemade mixes won't have everything from the wild. I do give Rolo nuts and she loves them, but I'd like to try coconut oil if it's possible to give it to them (which I didn't know until now) because I know how good it is for humans. But we try to give them analogs to what's in the wild--thing similar to what they would eat even if not exactly the same. They might not have nuts, but nut nutritional profiles are generally close to seeds, which they do eat in the wild. And when we give them treats like fresh fruit or raisins or the like we know not to give them too much. But those things at least are foods--coconut fat isn't a food, it's a refined ingredient. Nuts are food--fatty, but not only fat, while coconut oil is, by definition, pretty much all fat. And coconut oil is NOT good for humans, despite the furor. I don't know if you have it in the UK, but Consumer Reports is an organization/publication that's been around since 1936, a nonprofit that advocates for--obviously--the consumer They don't take advertising and only do testing/reporting (the things they test they buy; they don't accept samples). In addressing coconut oil, they wrote: "Despite what you may have heard, coconut oil isn’t a healthy choice; it has more total saturated fat than beef or butter. It’s high in a type of saturated fat called lauric acid, which proponents claim makes it healthier than other foods high in saturated fat. But only 12 percent of the oil is lauric acid." And the NY Times recently had a report on coconut oil in its On Health section (there's a paywall, but a certain number of articles per month are free). In relevant part: "'It’s been known for a long time that coconut oil raises blood levels of artery-damaging LDL cholesterol, and the newest research has strengthened that early understanding,” said [Dr. Frank M. Sacks, nutrition and cardiovascular disease specialist at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health. In preparing an editorial published last March in the journal Circulation, he said, 'I could find nothing in the scientific literature to support advertising claims that coconut oil has some beneficial effects.' And Dr. [Philip Greenland], professor of cardiology at the Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago.] echoed that assessment, stating that 'the marketing of coconut oil is confusing. It’s trying to sell it as a healthy fat, but those who know its composition don’t think that at all.'” Again, it's a long article and worth reading; there's a lot more than just what I quoted, but that's the gist. I do try to get my information from good sources, and these are two very good ones, without an interest in the outcome. So with all the more appropriate things out there to give gerbils, I think coconut oil is pretty far down the list.
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Post by Scott on Jan 22, 2021 15:30:57 GMT -8
Millet seeds which are sometimes at least in gerbil food, are one of their natural foods, here's a small (incomplete) list I made of some natural gerbil foods mentioned in a few research papers (Wang et al and Argen IIRC). Mongolian gerbils mainly feed on the foliage of:- Artemisia sieversiana (Wormwood, daisey family), Salsola (spp = multiple species, Saltwort)., Setaria viridis (Wild foxtail millet, predecessor of Setaria italica Foxtail millet, a small grain crop) and Leymus chinensis (Poaceae)(False wheatgrass, wild rye, Sheepgrass(US?), Chinese rye grass) (Ågren et al., 1989a), Oh, and a variety of Hemp grows in their natural habitat too, but I don't recall which variety, nor if they actually eat it. That's a great list. I have some A sieversiana growing, but I can't be sure it hasn't sucked up anything from the local soil I wouldn't want the boys to eat.
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Post by Markpd on Jan 22, 2021 15:37:49 GMT -8
Wish I could remember exactly which research paper of Wang's it was that mentioned the food, (Wang's and Liu's papers all seem to be freely available btw and are a great source for gerbil research ), I think it was "Home-range sizes of social groups of Mongolian gerbils Meriones unguiculatus" but don't hold me to that (I'll read it again at some point).
I've just read Wang et al - Home range sizes of social groups of Gerbils Feb 2011, they mentioned that the gerbils "preferred food" was Artemisia sieversiana and spp (Wormwood, daisey family), Salsola spp (spp = multiple species), (Saltwort)., the listed foods earlier are all from Argen 1989.
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Thea
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Posts: 1,012
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Post by Thea on Jan 22, 2021 22:46:57 GMT -8
Scott - but in reality, most things we give them aren't from the wild...? Like, they don't have most of what's in their food in the wild and it's still safe. Even the more natural homemade mixes won't have everything from the wild. I do give Rolo nuts and she loves them, but I'd like to try coconut oil if it's possible to give it to them (which I didn't know until now) because I know how good it is for humans. But we try to give them analogs to what's in the wild--thing similar to what they would eat even if not exactly the same. They might not have nuts, but nut nutritional profiles are generally close to seeds, which they do eat in the wild. And when we give them treats like fresh fruit or raisins or the like we know not to give them too much. But those things at least are foods--coconut fat isn't a food, it's a refined ingredient. Nuts are food--fatty, but not only fat, while coconut oil is, by definition, pretty much all fat. And coconut oil is NOT good for humans, despite the furor. I don't know if you have it in the UK, but Consumer Reports is an organization/publication that's been around since 1936, a nonprofit that advocates for--obviously--the consumer They don't take advertising and only do testing/reporting (the things they test they buy; they don't accept samples). In addressing coconut oil, they wrote: "Despite what you may have heard, coconut oil isn’t a healthy choice; it has more total saturated fat than beef or butter. It’s high in a type of saturated fat called lauric acid, which proponents claim makes it healthier than other foods high in saturated fat. But only 12 percent of the oil is lauric acid." And the NY Times recently had a report on coconut oil in its On Health section (there's a paywall, but a certain number of articles per month are free). In relevant part: "'It’s been known for a long time that coconut oil raises blood levels of artery-damaging LDL cholesterol, and the newest research has strengthened that early understanding,” said [Dr. Frank M. Sacks, nutrition and cardiovascular disease specialist at Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health. In preparing an editorial published last March in the journal Circulation, he said, 'I could find nothing in the scientific literature to support advertising claims that coconut oil has some beneficial effects.' And Dr. [Philip Greenland], professor of cardiology at the Feinberg School of Medicine in Chicago.] echoed that assessment, stating that 'the marketing of coconut oil is confusing. It’s trying to sell it as a healthy fat, but those who know its composition don’t think that at all.'” Again, it's a long article and worth reading; there's a lot more than just what I quoted, but that's the gist. I do try to get my information from good sources, and these are two very good ones, without an interest in the outcome. So with all the more appropriate things out there to give gerbils, I think coconut oil is pretty far down the list. oops, accidentally posted just quoting this! Ah ok, sorry I didn't know. I wasn't trying to argue in the slightest, but I think I just needed a clearer point (as you've just given!).
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