Acclimating multiple litters of youngsters

[michaeljack]

FYI: this is how I acclimate young groups. In this case, seven litters are represented. 

*A fresh 10-gallon aquarium with hay is prepared to create a new collective body aroma. The close quarters aids the objective.
*Added to that daily is a mixed vegetable salad, regular food, and broken walnuts: the edible assemblage maintains the babies' attention off each other initially. 
*They will remain in close quarters for 36-48 hours. 
*Afterward, the youngsters will be divided by gender; each grouped in a larger cage. They will remain in the new cages while I observe and decide who will be mated with whom. In this case, I plan to create trios. 
Any leftover unpaired ones will be sold as pets. 

I had created previous older group of 20 (now 12 weeks old). They have recently been clustered by gender and are in the process of being placed in couples and triads. 

imgur.com/CFtvmzS

imgur.com/1HUIu3Y

[Markpd]

The gerbil equivalent of a box of frogs! Very cute .
You said they're 6-8 weeks old right?

Do you find using this method you can more quickly and easily see which pairs are likely to work best?
When/why do you choose between pairs and trios?

[tanzanyte]

My daughter would be in heaven if she came across a box like that!

I've always been intrigued by how breeders choose who to pair or trio together so will definitely be interested to read the answers to Marks questions.

Do you ever get fights within the time frame or are they too young to really get into that?

[michaeljack]

Mar 8, 2021 12:10:04 GMT -8 Markpd said:

The gerbil equivalent of a box of frogs! Very cute .
You said they're 6-8 weeks old right?

Do you find using this method you can more quickly and easily see which pairs are likely to work best?
When/why do you choose between pairs and trios?

I use this method specifically for acclimating several litters together before sexing them. It's easier to maintain a large single-sex clan for the time-being. (For pairs and trios, I use the cage divider method as discussed with betty).

I choose the pair/trios entirely on my whim of experimenting color outcomes. I pair them when they are about three months old. Occasionally the gender ratio is a factor. I generally exclude black, agouti, and REW*, which are sold off as pets. The exception: female agoutis only produced by honeys or nutmegs if I'm low on females. 

*I have a pet REW paired with an agouti (from honey+black). His brother is a spotted dove mated to a REW. I generally don't keep any of those boys' babies.  

tanzanyte, my grandchildren (and wife!), thoroughly enjoy seeing and playing with the large multi-colored groupings.  And, yes, in one instance a young female refused to get along with her new adopted litter mates. That was far enough in the past that I don't recall what I did with her. 

[betty]

Yes, I know plenty of breeders who club their pups pre-sale together in these big groups - I love seeing them like that. It helps when buyers are looking for a pair that look different and if done young enough it doesn't affect their long-term clanning.

Some breeders also do something similiar when doing mob-intros - where they introduce a single gerbil to a gang of new pups. This way they are overwhelmed with pups and so don't pick a fight with any of them. Gradually you pull out all the ones you don't want in the new clan and leave the final pup with the adult - job done. works well for same day intros with older single adults.

I wonder what it is about the Ruby-Eyed Whites you don't like michaeljack? I assume you also exclude the Slates with the Blacks too then - is it something about the under-white gene you don't like in the mix?

Also, there are ways to pick the right genes so you never get blacks or agoutis - unless people prefer those colours to buy? Also, the right agouti and black gerbils can have all the genes you need for all the other colours - so depending on your colour choices you might be eliminating the best gene combos from the outside rather than the inside. Those genes are magic once you find them!

I do love the whle idea of pot luck colour breeding - and of course you have to do that when buying in new stock - but when you mix the pups like that you lose track of the family genes so have to start all over again with recording them when you find something you like (or a health issue you don't).

All very interesting how other people do things. I think I am quite regimented in my style.

[michaeljack]

Mar 10, 2021 14:39:53 GMT -8 betty said:

I wonder what it is about the Ruby-Eyed Whites you don't like michaeljack? I assume you also exclude the Slates with the Blacks too then - is it something about the under-white gene you don't like in the mix?

Also, there are ways to pick the right genes so you never get blacks or agoutis - unless people prefer those colours to buy? Also, the right agouti and black gerbils can have all the genes you need for all the other colours - so depending on your colour choices you might be eliminating the best gene combos from the outside rather than the inside. Those genes are magic once you find them!

The REWs are pretty, but they are obligatory. My wife had a red-eyed 'gray' pied boy and wanted me to provide a mate. She was black. They produced the expected common black/white pied babies. I sold all but a male and one with an anomaly. She seemed born with and further developed a concaved skull with a missing eye. I paired her (at three months) with a year-old black rex (a male I didn't want as a breeder). That was a few months ago, and "Seeker" hasn't produced any babies. 

About six months ago, I was given a single REW, so I paired her with Karen's red-eyed 'gray' pied. They have had a combination of those two colors in two litters. I like them and they're cute; I simply don't want them. 

Having raised mice, rats, and ring-necked doves (and hybrids thereof) for decades and experimenting with fur and feather color genetics, I have some idea how to pair the gerbils. The resulting genetic "magic" color forming, though, is my interest. I know there are hidden genetic gems in the agoutis and blacks, and in a few cases I kept a few female agoutis from the Honey lines (and one female black) and correctly guessed they'd produced a variety of colors. I keep a detailed account of lineages (yes even in the "mobs"), so have an idea what may come. But, as you said, the magic genes have yielded surprises that I never expected. 

[betty]

If you breed colourpoints - you would have wanted to keep that Black female - she was PP - quite a nice find. They stop you getting any more PEWs (pink-eyed colourpoints) - makes the litters of Burmese etc run true.

[michaeljack]

Here is the latest multi-litter assimilation.

For added entertainment, as well as adjusting the family groups mingling together, I included a wild bird seed cake.

Some of you know Runt. He's is so small (though seemingly robust), I took him out of the previous community of youngsters and siblings and placed him with this younger group. He's the solid black in the video. 

imgur.com/2aveg4H

[tanzanyte]

Oooh it's chaos! It's funny enough watching a pair push each other out of the way for seed cakes, but this a proper pile up.
I can't believe the littleone is older than the rest - he still looks slightly smaller.
Have you decided what you will do with him long term?

[michaeljack]

tanzanyte
He's such a sweetie.
He's at least two months older than these, his current clan members.
I have no definite plans for him yet. I'll probably add him to each consecutive grouped weaned litters.
Perhaps he'll be my preceptor for each new assimilation.

[tanzanyte]

I've finally remembered to ask if you have a weight on teeny elite gerbil michaeljack? We're looking at size/weights of gerbils in another thread and it would be really interesting to know how much he weighs and what age he is now if you're able to let us know.

[michaeljack]

May 17, 2021 3:40:51 GMT -8 tanzanyte said:

I've finally remembered to ask if you have a weight on teeny elite gerbil michaeljack ? We're looking at size/weights of gerbils in another thread and it would be really interesting to know how much he weighs and what age he is now if you're able to let us know.

tanzanyte,
Runt was born on February 2, 2021
As of today, June 6, he weighs 1.3oz/37g at 4 months, 4 days. 

He's small but very active, seemingly healthy, and really friendly.
He's about 1/2 the size of his siblings.