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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 24, 2021 1:00:03 GMT -8
Lily did something really odd this morning. She was out and about as normal, then I looked over and saw her standing on their hay pile with her head extended, and she kept thrusting it forward. With each thrust her eyes also narrowed and her ears rotated. She was also chewing something at the front of her mouth. She looked a lot like a cat being sick but of course gerbils can't be sick. This continued for a few seconds and then she spat out something greeny brown and wet. I thought it could be either stool or chewed up hay. After that she was fine. Does it sound she was choking? She does have her habit of stuffing her mouth with things, so maybe she overdid it and choked? It was quite worrying to watch when it was happening. Any ideas?
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Post by betty on Mar 24, 2021 4:24:44 GMT -8
Sounds like it - she must have had something stuck - and coughed it out?
Could have been something caught on a hair or strand of hay and was sort of dangling - might explain the chewing part.
Glad she sorted it out whatever it was.
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Post by Markpd on Mar 24, 2021 10:55:37 GMT -8
Yea does sound like she was choking on something, poor lily  , glad she's ok now though! Gerbils can't be sick?? Why not? |
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 24, 2021 11:06:16 GMT -8
Yea does sound like she was choking on something, poor lily , glad she's ok now though! Gerbils can't be sick?? Why not? I don't know exactly why not anatomically, but most, if not all, herbivores (gerbils aren't strictly herbivores but they have similar digestive systems) are incapable of being sick. They have one way digestive systems. It's why rodents are so susceptible to poisoning. She did look quite uncomfortable, poor thing! |
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Post by Markpd on Mar 24, 2021 11:28:56 GMT -8
Oh, interesting! (cows being an exception I think?, they regurgitate some food to rechew it? IIRC)
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Mar 24, 2021 11:49:10 GMT -8
Oh, interesting! (cows being an exception I think?, they regurgitate some food to rechew it? IIRC) Regurgitation is a different mechanism to vomiting. I don't think cows can vomit. I suppose their digestive system isn't strictly one-way though. |
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 19, 2021 2:29:23 GMT -8
So, today this happened again. She was eating a Gerri Gerbil hay pellet (last time I suspect she was chewing up hay) Last time there was a lot of dramatic gagging movements until she finally spat out a brown liquid, and then was fine. This time it wasn't quite as dramatic. There were some minor gagging type movements but mostly she just seemed unable to swallow what was in her mouth. She also didn't manage to spit anything out, instead she had a brown paste around her mouth for a few minutes. I was able to get a couple of pictures. After I took the photos she went underground and when she came back her mouth was clean and she seemed fine.   Is it possible she has some kind of swallowing issue? I checked her teeth. I could only see the front ones but they looked ok. I gave her a sunflower seed and she shelled and ate it fine. I know they use the back teeth for grinding up hay though, and I wasn't able to see those, but both times, the hay did seem fully ground up (the first time it was a brown liquid, this time a brown paste), she just couldn't swallow it. I'm also wondering if this is in some way connected to that episode she had a few weeks ago because when I saw her earlier she seemed a bit limp, so I initially that was happening again until I realised she was choking again. |
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Post by betty on Jul 19, 2021 5:31:58 GMT -8
Blesss her.
Might not be related - bit if goos and chins drops food, create a dust of a paste it is believed to be teeth always from what I can see on the forums.
Other suggestions would be like you say, could be a throat issue (muscles/blockage/growth) and would need far more indepth investigation. I wonder if speaking to a vet or similar could narrow down food types more likely to make such an issue worse - and then perhaps they can be avoided?
I was also reading that poorly processed/stored wheat can sometimes react with the gluten and make food sticky - but I would assume that would be a wider issue overall if she is being fed standard gerbil fare?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 19, 2021 6:54:39 GMT -8
I was thinking of possibly avoiding hay and hay pellets since both times hay has been involved. I don't know if the hay pellets also contain anything like wheat which might make them more sticky and harder to swallow.
Apart from these two occasions she seems to have no trouble eating. She's interested in food and enthusiastic to eat, she chews and swallows it normally. I've never seen her pawing at her mouth or drooling. She chews cardboard and wood. Her front teeth are yellow, the proper length and not uneven. She's fed Getzoo Gerbil food (mostly small seeds) and occasional Gerri Gerbil and Science Selective pellets, plus fresh food.
Presumably an x-ray would show any dental problems and perhaps any growths in the throat area as well? I have emailed my vet to ask for their advice and to find out if an x-ray to check for dental issues or growths is an option.
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Post by betty on Jul 19, 2021 7:44:03 GMT -8
Yes, does seem strange that you have only seen it twice - but that both seemed quite noticable.
Perhaps, feed her one time (when she is hungry) on a plain surface out of her enclosure to see if she dies drop any bits of food just out of interest. I will see if I can find out more on that chinchilla issue - but am assuming it was malocclusion - which doesn't usually present with gagging?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 19, 2021 11:16:57 GMT -8
She was able to eat some mealworms without dropping any bits. Then she ate a piece of raisin which due to its sticky texture I would think might cause problems for a gerbil with a swallowing issue, but she was fine. Back in the enclosure she ate a whole green wheat pellet while sitting in a jar, and when I checked the jar afterwards there were no dropped pieces.
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Post by tanzanyte on Jul 20, 2021 14:18:43 GMT -8
It definitely sounds odd and would be good to find out what the vets think. I hope she's been ok since then without any further episodes? I did a quick search and catnut has had something similar with choking and liquid. Maybe she can shed a little more light on this? gerbilforum.proboards.com/thread/14661/help-choking-gerbil |
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 21, 2021 5:57:03 GMT -8
No, she hasn't had any further episodes (that I've seen). I'm still waiting to hear from the vet.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 25, 2021 16:22:57 GMT -8
The vet never got back to me. I'm not sure what to do now. Lily looks so well 99.9% of the time and I don't want to take her to a vet only for them to just tell me she looks ok, they can't feel anything wrong, to keep an eye on her and bring her back if she develops any other symptoms, which is why I wanted to know if my vet would be able to do anything more than just look at her and feel her.
I think I'll just wait and see if this becomes a regular thing and if it does perhaps take her to a new vet (there are quite a few to choose from in my local area).
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Post by betty on Jul 25, 2021 17:51:02 GMT -8
Perhaps if you can try to film it if it happens again - as this would be the only way of a possible (and useful) diagnosis.
There is a vet comments only group on FB called exotic vet corner or somthing similar where vets (if they have time and know the answer) will comment on your health concerns. You can also ask for other contributers (who aren't vets but years of proven experience) to comment too - and they might be able to offer advice of suggestions for what this could be if they have seen it before?
It is quite a random thing - so as you say: taking her to a non-experienced gerbil/small (small) animal vet would just have you coming away without much help and a lighter wallet. Perhaps at least finding out what sort of treatment could even see what was going on in her mouth/throat/nose/lungs before taking her in could save everyone a little time with possible suggestions. I mean if you can't see a soft tissue issue in a gerbil anyway - then what could a non-exotic vet do, even with the best intentions?
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, glad she's ok now though!
), late 70s