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Post by LilyandDaisy on Sept 24, 2021 13:31:17 GMT -8
I did wonder about mini-strokes before but I think you're right that they tend to last hours rather than minutes. I've been wondering about epilepsy a lot too, but as you say it would have to be seizures affecting only part of the brain (focal seizures) because she remains conscious. Another possibility that came up during recent research was a neuromuscular disease which could also cause swallowing issues.
I've sent the videos today so I hope the vet will be willing to look at them before the appointment.
Fortunately there have been no more swallowing issues (while I was watching at least).
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Post by catnut on Sept 24, 2021 13:55:29 GMT -8
sorry to hear Lily has had more episodes, i hope the vet knows what it could be and maybe there is a treatment or something they can do for her-fingers crossed.
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Post by PipSqueak on Sept 24, 2021 15:35:29 GMT -8
This probably won’t help, but in mid 2020 I had a hamster who was nearly 2 years old. She would go through phases were she would be all wobbly and would sleep in her not usual area, out in the open. I never took her to the vet since I knew it was her time and at the time couldn’t afford to take a hamster that was going to pass away anyway to the vet. Now I wish I did but it seems quite similar to what Lily is going through. How old is she? Could it possibly be something like a mold in your house that’s affecting them? Has it also happened in Daisy?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Sept 24, 2021 16:46:30 GMT -8
This probably won’t help, but in mid 2020 I had a hamster who was nearly 2 years old. She would go through phases were she would be all wobbly and would sleep in her not usual area, out in the open. I never took her to the vet since I knew it was her time and at the time couldn’t afford to take a hamster that was going to pass away anyway to the vet. Now I wish I did but it seems quite similar to what Lily is going through. How old is she? Could it possibly be something like a mold in your house that’s affecting them? Has it also happened in Daisy? Thanks for sharing that. How long did these phases last? Lily is 2 years 7 months old. I hadn't thought about a mould issue but I have Rocket and Storm and two hamsters in the same room and they don't have any similar symptoms. We don't really have issues with damp or mould in our house and I don't think there's any in that room. Daisy has only had the one choking episode and nothing else, although I am mindful that Lily had one choking episode 3 months before all this started.
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Post by PipSqueak on Sept 24, 2021 17:26:00 GMT -8
It lasted around 1 hour to a few hours and would happen at least once a week. She would be really lethargic, wobbly, and she would just sleep all day. I think that it was seizures. If your hamsters aren’t being affected then it’s probably not mold. It could be closer to the gerbils or something that only affects them but that’s quite a stretch.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Oct 1, 2021 1:35:33 GMT -8
We're back from the vet. She looked in their mouths and felt their necks and abdomens and couldn't find anything obviously wrong with either of them. She's going to email an exotics specialist at the Royal Veterinary College to ask their opinion and any treatment will be based on that.
Lily developed a new symptom about a week ago which is soft, slightly greenish stools which turn very pale within a few hours. I mentioned that to the vet too. Her appetite is still really good though.
I've seen her have two more episodes in the past week. One started when she was sitting in her coconut and the other I only saw the end of as she was jumping out of the sand bath. It's the odd thing during these episodes that despite the incoordination and weakness she can sometimes manage feats such as climbing or jumping out of a sand bath, if it's what she wants to do. She carries on completely as normal, except that her body isn't working properly for her.
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Post by tanzanyte on Oct 1, 2021 12:06:25 GMT -8
Oh no, it doesn't sound good that the episodes seem to be increasing, along with some more symptoms. Although I'm pleased that your vet is contacting a specialist. Hopefully they will have some answers for you.
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Post by Markpd on Oct 1, 2021 14:20:25 GMT -8
Keeping fingers crossed for you.
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Post by betty on Oct 2, 2021 10:15:34 GMT -8
Bless...
This is all such a weird bunch of symptoms? Let's hope the specialists have an open mind and can come up with some possibilities...
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Oct 6, 2021 8:25:36 GMT -8
The vet called back today to relay what the specialist said. The specialist didn't really have any insight but they suggested a couple of things. Firstly, they mentioned that gerbils have been known to have seizures in response to stress. I think they were probably referencing the seizures that young gerbils can have and I'm sure it's not that. The second thing was whether the gerbils had been exposed to any chemicals (specifically in relation to the choking episodes). I suppose they were thinking along the lines of something that could cause breathing issues or throat swelling. But I don't think it's a likely possibility due to the gaps in time between choking episodes and the fact that they can eat normally in between.
The end result is that we've decided to trial an anti-inflammatory (which I assume will be metacam, I need to pick up the medication later in the week) in case it's an inflammatory or pain-related process.
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Post by Markpd on Oct 6, 2021 10:15:31 GMT -8
Hmm, puzzling to them too then I guess. Hoping that works for them!
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Oct 8, 2021 5:26:53 GMT -8
I picked up the medication today and it is metacam. The vet prescribed it for both gerbils but I'm not going to give it to Daisy since she doesn't have any ongoing symptoms. I haven't seen Lily have any more episodes since they went to the vet (so in the last week) which doesn't necessarily mean they haven't happened but before I was seeing two a week on average, and the last week none at all? I haven't been watching her any less. Also her stools are looking more normal although I think they're still slightly soft. Maybe that thorough physical examination she had the vet made her decide that being ill isn't very fun after all The thing is that if I start the metacam now and she continues to not have episodes I won't know if it's the metacam or whether they stopped on their own. Since she is fine in herself when she isn't having ataxic episodes (I learnt from the vet that ataxia is the word for being wobbly, unbalanced, uncoordinated etc), and doesn't appear to be deteriorating in any way, I'm going to wait to see her have another episode before starting the medication.
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Post by stellamaris on Oct 8, 2021 9:42:50 GMT -8
I rarely respond to threads since I'm new to gerbils and don't have much to say. I've been following your challenges with Lily and Daisy, and hope things work out. I think you're wise to wait and watch before dosing Lily. Hopefully, she's recovered on her own. Don't gerbils eat their poo? I'm wondering if that was the green stuff she was initially choking up. Maybe the wierd poos you saw were pre-eaten? I always assumed that the nornal little hard poos were already recycled. Anyway, hopefully it's all a moot point, and she'll be better.
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Post by betty on Oct 8, 2021 11:12:49 GMT -8
Thanks for the update - and I think you are right to hold off on the medication so you can see whether it passes on its own in this stretch - and then only when needed start the meds and then follow on with obs.
Perhaps writing down the treats, foods and veg etc you give that is different (or from a different supplier) to what they have always had - as well as anything random in their room (so your own eating/cleaning/spraying) habits and perhaps a pattern may emerge that you had previously overlooked? It is only a thought as otherwise we are still none the wiser on what triggers it?
I don't suppose you could also try a water bowl up on a shelf somewhere as this may allow you too see any food residue from the mouth (when drinking from a bowl most rodents will drops gritty things in the bowl over time as it falls out of their mouth while they are hanging over and lapping). I have had a few duprasi who have had had gritty water and both had cysts in the mouth area - and I often read that degus and chins drop dust from their badly chewed foods in their bowls too. Only a thought, might not be relevant to yours but something that can be easily done as an aside.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Oct 8, 2021 12:19:55 GMT -8
I rarely respond to threads since I'm new to gerbils and don't have much to say. I've been following your challenges with Lily and Daisy, and hope things work out. I think you're wise to wait and watch before dosing Lily. Hopefully, she's recovered on her own. Don't gerbils eat their poo? I'm wondering if that was the green stuff she was initially choking up. Maybe the wierd poos you saw were pre-eaten? I always assumed that the nornal little hard poos were already recycled. Anyway, hopefully it's all a moot point, and she'll be better. I'm not sure if gerbils eat their poo. Some reading I've done seems to indicate they either don't at all, or not very often, or it's more of a backup mechanism when their diet doesn't provide adequate nutrients, whereas other rodents like rats depend on coprophagy for adequate nutrition even when healthy. It was every poo that was green so I don't think they were caecotrophs (the soft poos that rodents eat) Thanks for the update - and I think you are right to hold off on the medication so you can see whether it passes on its own in this stretch - and then only when needed start the meds and then follow on with obs. Perhaps writing down the treats, foods and veg etc you give that is different (or from a different supplier) to what they have always had - as well as anything random in their room (so your own eating/cleaning/spraying) habits and perhaps a pattern may emerge that you had previously overlooked? It is only a thought as otherwise we are still none the wiser on what triggers it? I don't suppose you could also try a water bowl up on a shelf somewhere as this may allow you too see any food residue from the mouth (when drinking from a bowl most rodents will drops gritty things in the bowl over time as it falls out of their mouth while they are hanging over and lapping). I have had a few duprasi who have had had gritty water and both had cysts in the mouth area - and I often read that degus and chins drop dust from their badly chewed foods in their bowls too. Only a thought, might not be relevant to yours but something that can be easily done as an aside. They do have a water bowl which Lily prefers to use over the bottle. It does get bits of bedding in it (despite being on a shelf) but I've moved it up higher and I'll keep an eye out for dust or grit in it. I've been keeping a record of every "ataxic episode" she had, along with what she was doing when it happened, but I'll also start recording other symptoms the things you suggested.
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