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Post by LilyandDaisy on Nov 2, 2021 12:12:22 GMT -8
Very odd. How was she cross with you? lol. I know Hamsters can grunt when annoyed, but AFAIK Gerbils don't make any annoyed noises? Unless you include feet stamping? Lily tends to nip the hand that thwarts one of her adventures. Only the tiniest of nips though, she never breaks the skin, but just enough to communicate that she's displeased. She also destroys things when annoyed. She's not even a very destructive gerbil by nature (Daisy will chew just for pleasure, but Lily not so much), so if she's furiously attacking something, it's because she's upset. The other day she attacked a blanket because something she wanted to climb on had been moved. The blanket was in the spot the thing used to be, so clearly it was all the blanket's fault. And then there's just the general energy about her that always seems to communicate excitement, or joy or displeasure. Since she was ill, she hasn't got much of that energy left unfortunately. She's seemed a bit vacant and not all there much of the time. Since you mention noise, I always think of Lily as a "loud" gerbil, but not in the literal sense (apart from when she's attacking the cage mesh demanding free roaming - that is very loud), but in that she's usually so busy and expressive, and she's so good at making her opinions known (especially the negative ones). At the moment she's very quiet, figuratively. There are brief glimpses of how she used to be though, like when she was climbing the hamster cages.
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Post by Markpd on Nov 2, 2021 12:50:03 GMT -8
Lol re the blanket! Ah yea nipping, my boys do that if I hold them too long, so did my previous Gerbil.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Nov 5, 2021 11:14:07 GMT -8
This is Lily, demanding to know why she isn't being free roamed right now (and also being very rude to Daisy): www.youtube.com/watch?v=3VPLFQ6f5jsShe's actually been free roamed twice today, but I think she wants extra to make up for all the free roaming time she missed when she was ill! She seemed tired after the second free roaming but, as you can see, she recovered pretty quickly. She has been brighter today. I'm not sure if this is the Metacam making a difference? I think the free roaming is doing her good too though. It's awakening her old personality.
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Post by Markpd on Nov 5, 2021 16:22:01 GMT -8
Good to hear she's doing well Lol, and at the end of the video she looks at you and thinks 'haven't you got the hint yet!?' And yea, poor daisy! lol And I've just remembered that Blake's started doing that a little too often lately!
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Post by Markpd on Nov 8, 2021 15:20:29 GMT -8
Thread moved as requested
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Nov 11, 2021 8:42:04 GMT -8
Lily had another "thrashing" episode last night. I heard banging again, and she was lying on her back in her nest, which is next to the side of the tank. It seemed to end just as I saw her, and then she collapsed into her nest and lay panting for a bit. This morning she was quite wobbly, and when I gave her her medication something happened to her. She wasn't always very good at taking it in food so I usually just hold her on her back briefly and squirt it into her mouth, which at first she hated but now she's getting used to (she even winked at me afterwards yesterday). After I done this, she had some kind of attack where she was completely unable to hold her balance, and kept rolling onto her side or back. It lasted a few seconds and then was ok again. It almost seemed like some kind of vertigo? Maybe triggered by being on her back? I'm sure she didn't choke on the medication. I wonder if this is the same thing that happens to her when she thrashes around, and the banging noises are from the rolling around. That was a few hours ago and she came out just now and seemed better. She has days like last Saturday when she's really bright, and days like yesterday and today when she's quiet and a bit fragile. Yesterday she did manage to summon the strength at one point to attack the cage door demanding free roaming (which she didn't get), but on the whole she's been rather tired the past couple of days. I've set up a heating mat on the side of their tank and she spends a lot of time basking in the warmth from that. I think that her problem is might be neurologically based, and it does seem to be getting worse, but quite slowly. I hope she'll have plenty of good days left.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Nov 11, 2021 9:30:30 GMT -8
That's not good to hear at all 😔 Bless Lilly for being so strong. I'm not a health or gerbil expert at all, but I understand why you think it could be a neurological problem. Fingers crossed it won't happen again, despite it happening a few times. It's not nice watching things like this happen to an animal and not knowing exactly how they're feeling.
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Post by elsaandanna on Nov 11, 2021 10:04:28 GMT -8
Oh poor Lily , it's always horrible when you don't know what you can really do to help. Hopefully the episodes won't become too frequent, and Lily will be ok. Yes, I think it's most likely to be something neurological, I can't think of anything else that might be causing it. It's good to hear she still wants to come out for free roaming though, and hopefully she will have more good days than bad
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Post by Markpd on Nov 11, 2021 12:30:43 GMT -8
Poor Lily , at least it doesn't seem to last long. And also no expert here, but agreed it does sound neurological.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Nov 11, 2021 12:57:42 GMT -8
She is a very strong and brave gerbil! I'm glad that's she still being demanding and annoying around free roaming because it means she's probably not suffering too much, just tired, and she's still getting pleasure out of life.
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Post by catnut on Nov 11, 2021 15:32:13 GMT -8
sorry to hear about Lilys' episodes, she is very brave, but glad she has some good days she can be normal, fingers crossed you will have her for many more days.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on Nov 11, 2021 23:22:50 GMT -8
She is a very strong and brave gerbil! I'm glad that's she still being demanding and annoying around free roaming because it means she's probably not suffering too much, just tired, and she's still getting pleasure out of life. Yes, that is the most important thing
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Post by tanzanyte on Nov 16, 2021 14:49:25 GMT -8
I can't believe Lily is still having these episodes Although it's good that she is still very much interested in being out and about. I know certain neurological conditions are easier to recover from in-between bouts as it's not affecting them all of the time. It just shows that we still have so much to learn regarding their health though. I love the video - this is exactly what Little My does when she wants to come out.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Nov 22, 2021 9:16:06 GMT -8
Lily went back to the vet today because she had some abdominal bloating, which resolved, but then she had some blood in her urine. She also had visible blood in her genital region and for a couple of hours seemed uncomfortable (licking her genitals a lot). This happened on Thursday and unfortunately the vets didn't have any appointments for Friday or Saturday so she was seen today. Knowing that Baytril is likely to be the generic response to this type of thing, I did start her on some I had leftover until she could see a vet. It was only a single episode of blood. The vet has prescribed more Baytril and also another vial of Metacam to use as and when she seems to need it. The vet couldn't feel anything in her abdomen. She suggested it could have been an infection or a kidney stone, or a reproductive issue (with the blood just ending up in her urine due to proximity). I think a urinary issue seems more likely due to the bloating in her bladder region. Like when she was really ill, I've been giving her a daily large selection of vegetables and fruits (her diet is much better than mine right now) because with the urinary issues I wanted to be sure she was getting enough fluid, and she does seem to prefer to get her water from food if she can. It's a bit of vicious circle whereby I'm not sure that she's drinking enough, so I give her vegetables, so she doesn't need to drink as much, so I keep giving the vegetables. However as long as she always has seed mix as well, I wouldn't think she would starve herself of nutrients? Her appetite is very good and she seems to manage to eat plenty of seed mix in addition to the fresh food. I'm avoiding leafy veg such as spinach though due to the oxalates which can contribute to kidney stones. I had been meaning to go back to the vet anyway to check a few things and get more medication. Ever since she was really ill that time she's had quite fast flank breathing. I had the vet listen to her heart and breathing, and she compared it to Daisy's, and didn't notice anything amiss. I think Lily gets breathless which probably contributes to her tiredness. Possibly she has some degree of heart failure, but she has no generalised bloating or weight gain so the vet said that diuretics probably wouldn't be helpful (and they come with significant side effects). I mentioned the new episodes where Lily thrashes or rolls around, but the vet didn't have much to say about that. I suppose neurological things are next to impossible to diagnose without scans. Fortunately Lily hasn't had anymore of those that I have seen, and only one more of the previous type of episodes that I have seen. I finally managed to get that episode on camera, and you can see it here. You can also see the slight bloating in that video which has since resolved. You can see how her front paws are held unnaturally raised, which is always how the episodes start nowadays. I've noticed that whereas the first couple of episodes were very dramatic (with lots of frantic movement as she tried to fight through the weakness/incoordination), nowadays Lily just seems to take it in her stride. I think she's used to it, she knows what's happening and that it's going to end, so she's calmer and less likely to fight and thrash about. I hope that something similar might happen with the newer episodes. Because the thrashing and rolling stops when she's disturbed (for example when I open the cage door), I don't believe they are involuntary movements, but rather Lily panicking and trying to fight whatever is wrong with her (whether it's vertigo or loss of balance, or whatever). During the last episode, the one that happened when I was holding her, at one point she just gave up and lay quietly in my hand. If these episodes continue, I hope that she will learn to respond more calmly and they will be less unpleasant for her. So she seems to have a lot going on and it's hard to see how it all joins up?
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Post by Markpd on Nov 22, 2021 12:32:56 GMT -8
Sorry to hear she's had other issues now, poor girl:(, hopefully those will pass! Good to hear that she seems to be dealing with her episodes better though, and that's lovely that she trusts you so much that she just laid on your hand on the last one Re your video, I couldn't see her have her 'fit', was it when she went into the dark? (was pitch black for me, is it just my monitor settings??)
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