Fighting pair and re-introduction

[Houz-dini]

Hey, I have 3 boys, a pair and a lone.
But my pair had started fighting in the playpen so I put them back home to make up, and they would usually make up after an hour with no blood or ball, but last week they had fought all day while I was not home and blood was all over the tank.
My victim(Zippy) was very lethargic and slept alot but is healing now on his own with no medical help, but my agresser(Houdini) is being housed in a very small hamster cage and I have no bigger cages to put him in and he is too aggressive to be housed with anyone at this point. 

My lone boy(Squiggles) has been alone for a few weeks after his brother passed away [he has had no contact with my pair but in his own playpen and tank]. I was wondering if I could re-introduce Zippy to Squiggles when Zippys wounds are completely healed; replacing Houdini into Zippys old tank as it is bigger.

I used to have all of them as a quad but Houdini was becoming too aggressive to Squiggles and his brother. They are also all about three years old

And, could I do it without the split cage method?

[betty]

Hello - and welcome to the forum - sorry it is after another declan incident.

As for could Zippy and Squiggles forming a new clan would be totally possible - if they are both the less dominant gerbils there could be less of an issue with them overall. However the role they had in a previous clan can always change in a new clan - especially if they have been alone for any legnth of time. It just 'resets' them.

Due to the risk of injury - anyone on this forum would only ever recommmend the full split way as this is the safest and most succssful way to pair up two single gerbils. They - like me - wouldn't want to suggest something to you that could cause your gerbils harm. The full split intro allows you to see them together without being able to cause any harm to each other, and the slow sharing of built-up scents makes their bond stronger.

However, if you were to consider a non-split introduction that would be up to you - and we will always offer advice if you chose to attempt it that way. It is sometimes succesful on neutral territory - but not as often as the full split.

You would still need to be extra wary - having gloves and pots all over the place and spare carrier or high-sided boxes incase you need to break up a fight. Ideally having a second person with you would be a very good idea too. Doing it on a day where you can watch them for hours would also be advised - as with all intros.

They have met each other before of course - but this doesn't always mean they will like each other - even if they remember each other. Imagine meeting an old school enemy who you had to get on with even though they were a bully. Now you are adults at work - you might know them and you used to pretend to be their friend to divert their meanness - but you won't be letting them bully you any more if you can help it.

You do have the advantage of age though - as some older gerbils just sort of chill out and accept another older chilled out gerbil much more quickly than other gerbils do. However saying that of course - your other gerbil of the same age just massively attacked Zippy?

[Houz-dini]

My pair have had a constant shifting in power for a few months now and the fight was mostly unexpected, I'm not sure that my way of stopping fights was the right way but it has always worked for me without injury. I had gotten all of them at a pet store and were told they were the same age.
My pair and my lone have been apart since I first split them into pairs.

Zippy is a miracle that he is alive being stuck with his crazy brother for a sad six hours I was away, he has not had any medical attention as we do not have a small animal vet where I live, his broken finger has stopped swelling but is sticking straight up at the knuckle. He still digs with it and walks on the hand but the finger is useless now.
I just want to get Houdini out of the travel sized cage he is in.

[betty]

Unfortunately, declans are always unexpected the first time because gerbils are good at hiding the signs - even sleeping together and feeding side by side the morning before - and then they finally snap.

It is a shame you can't get Zippy some pain killers - their injuries can be really painful. But the most important thing is how stressful they are - so he will need a good rest and time to recover once he is sure that Houdini isn't returning. It is usually a good reason to leave the aggressor in the existing tank (as it smells of them) and put the injured one in the scent-free smaller tank - beter for recovery and no scents.

You could potentially - not sure on your time zone - have Houdini out in the bath tub instead of in the travel cage. I would possibly also consider putting him in the bath tub (with at least one nest box in there raised off the ground for warmth) and clean out the travel cage completely and when you are finally ready to take Houdini out of the tub - put Zippy in this fresh new small cage and Houdini back in the big smelly one for now.

He can then become king of his castle and Zippy has somewhere small and relaxing in which to recover. Being in a small space and with his bed and food in the same place - he can recouperate faster - and he will proably be a lot less stressed in there than Houdini - and less likely to try and chew his way out (if it has any plastic sections).

[Houz-dini]

Houdini nor Zippy is stressed in their living conditions as long as Houdini goes in the playpen for a few hours.

For the split cage though... If I just put Squiggles and Zippy's tanks beside each other, would that work if I kept switching them around and just using a mesh in the playpen. (As they are both in a smaller tank then I'd like)

[betty]

Many people on here have tried the cage-by-cage split intro instead of the in-tank split - and have had varied results.

Sometimes them being totally apart (where they can't touch each other) doesn't seem to matter - especially if you are going for the nuetral meet anyway.

Have a seach on some previous posts - there have been some recent ones I think outside of the now set up. Great to see different results anyway.

Good luck which ever way you try it.

[Houz-dini]

Need some help.
Houdini won't let me handle him so I checked on him, his eyes are very puffy and crusty but everything else is fine(no runny nose or scruffy fur). I can't find something stuck in his eye and he is using the same bedding that my 2 others are using. Is it sudden allergys or a serious problem?

[betty]

Well, any animal - including humans can get a sudden reaction to something in htat environment (not just the substrate itself) - so that is always a possibility.

I would potentially change him out if he is near that point anyway and give him lower than usually substrate. I would also clean out anything around him - like dusting ALL hte shelves and anything above him - even if they don't look dirty. Sprays and dust inthe room settle on anything and if you have recently started opening the windows now the weather has warmed up - you could be floofing up anything that has settled.

If you haven't already - check his teeth - the standard go-to for a gerbil in all situations.

[Houz-dini]

He seems fine altogether. He is eating and drinking fine, I made sure he knows how to use the bottle since I don't use bottles.
He has been sitting alot though, hunched on his back legs and staring into nothing. Is that a normal thing for old gerbils, he's dark eyed if that helps.

[betty]

And his teeth - you checked them properly?


And I would add in a dish of water too anyway if you say you don't normally use bottles.

[Houz-dini]

His teeth are fine, he bit me real good when I checked. I have taken all the bedding out and wiped the cage down put some new toilet paper in, and filled the bowl under the water bottle(It leaks). I will try to keep an eye on him for a few days and keep updating.

[betty]

Great stuff.

Hope it is nothing serious.

[Houz-dini]

Hey, sorry its been a while. I'm just here to say that Houdini's eyes cleared up( I have started shaking out the dust in the shavings more)and Zippy has healed completely. I also want to mention that Squiggles is rapidly losing weight and sleeps most of the time now, my old man won't be around for much longer. I have given him a good life and hope he reunites with his late-brother up there as I cannot do much more for him.

[betty]

Bless him.

Great news otherwise...