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Post by Markpd on May 10, 2021 12:47:47 GMT -8
Thanks Tanzanyte , and how old are Pepsi and Max? Btw I cut my boys feed to 15g/day a few days ago, although judging by how much I put in the spoon I think I was probably feeding them nearer to 15g than the 20g I thought I was! lol
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Post by betty on May 11, 2021 6:53:52 GMT -8
I was thinking about this while I was doing one of my food experiments as I am now trialling a very seed-based food - and of course some seeds are heavier and more nutritiuos than many grains and grasses. So wondered how this would differ if you either weighed or 'sized' your food amounts.
I don't usually feed a set amount (always a rough amount) but if you were feeding a heavy, fat-filled food by volume compared to a plant or extruded based food by weight - the calories and nutrients in each could be quite different.
I know it will all be in nano amounts - but considering I have found that sometimes my gerbils don't eat one or two of the main ingredients - over time this could be quite considerable. I might set up a scale for it for the foods I have and see?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on May 11, 2021 14:10:35 GMT -8
Thanks Tanzanyte , and how old are Pepsi and Max? Btw I cut my boys feed to 15g/day a few days ago, although judging by how much I put in the spoon I think I was probably feeding them nearer to 15g than the 20g I thought I was! lol You could try cutting it down further than 15g. Maybe to 12g? 6g each doesn't seem like much but if 15g is enough to allow them to gain weight, a little less shouldn't harm them. You could also try a different food. When I ran out of Rodipet and bought Getzoo instead, Lily and Daisy both gained weight, especially Daisy. Rocket and Storm were fine. I'm not certain whether it was the Getzoo food, but it could be. Perhaps Lily and Daisy have something genetically different with their bodies that means they whatever fat or protein level is in Getzoo is too much for them. They don't list that information on the website so I can't compare them unfortunately.
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Post by tanzanyte on May 12, 2021 13:20:35 GMT -8
Mymble and Little My were 2 months for the first weight I gave. They would have been between 3-4 months at the weight you mentioned for Pippa and Mali, so your girls are definitely lighter.
Pepsi and Max are 9 months for the most recent weights.
That's an interesting point regarding the food, Betty. It's a minefield and not something as simple as giving a set weight. I know I tried with mine when my daughter was giving thew boys too much food, but 20g of Beaphar was an insane amount so I had to give them much less.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on May 14, 2021 8:10:24 GMT -8
Sorry to change back to my girls, but I've just weighed them both and I am pretty worried. Pippa is 62g so probably around the weight she should be, but Mali is 52g. I may well have weighed her wrong before but I'm just worried because I last weighed them just over 3 weeks ago and nothing much has changed, especially with Mali. They're great friends (they're snuggling right now ), Pippa does act like an older sister to Mali (even though they're the same age!!) so I doubt Pippa is bullying Mali in any way. Is it possible that Mali could have been a/the runt? Betty (or anyone else of course!), do you remember having any experiences like this, at their age? My girls are 5 months.
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Post by Markpd on May 14, 2021 10:57:58 GMT -8
No need to apologise, it's your thread! Afraid I can't help you with your question though, the biggest weight difference I saw when my boys were young was 5g.
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Post by betty on May 14, 2021 16:14:55 GMT -8
As you say Thea - if you have been feeding more and seperately but she has still potentially lost weight - then perhaps there could be something more at play? I would start to weigh her every other day just for now as grams on a small gerbil are very important.
Also, scales can weigh things at different amounts if they aren't exactly even each time - so I always have a tester item. Basically I set up the scales and then firstly weigh this one thing. It always in itself weighs the same of course - so that way I can check I am not losing a crucial gram or two on a weigh in - especially with young or animals of concern. The animal's exact weight isn't an issue - it is the gain or loss that is important - so you need a benchmark to compare it too. If you hadn't done that before - then maybe there wasn't actually any weight loss, like you say.
Anyway, defo check her use of her teeth (not whether they are simply there or not) by watching her closely when you offer her (when hungry) only hard (but) yummy foods - like pumpkin seeds in their shell. They usually can't resist them. Watch for any pausing, sighing, jaw stretching or face washing - or outright refusal to eat them. Then I would check her poops where possible to see if they look normal - and there are enough of them.
I have three examples of small gerbils/low weight/weightloss for you based on your concerns - that don't really prove anything specific but maybe give a broader look at this:
1: Weightloss unexpectedly in a female gerbil - 100% stress. She was one of mine and a rat-owning adult friend was having a pet show and wanted some gerbils, so I leant her my gerbil (and her daughter) a few days in advance in a smaller-than-usual temporary set up with everything they needed to last the week. However, as they were buried under their substrate and both the same colour this friend didn't notice that one of them (on display the whole time in a busy room over a long weekend) was just too freaked out and dropped 10% bodyweight in a week. On seeing her on the final day of the show - I spotted it instantly and took her straight home (into hospital care) - and she put all the weight back on over the following 2 weeks. Phew. Won't do that again.
2: Small female gerbil - 100% healthy. I acquired a female gerbil off another breeder who had stayed quite small - even though not being a runt as a pup. She was always small and always under 60g. She never had any health issues and lived a nice long life - always small (and fiesty none-the-less). I find that slim small females tend to stay that way for at least the whole first year, maybe a bit longer. Bigger females are already big by 6-8 months.
3: The catch up runt - didn't stay small for long. I had the teeeeenist runt in a litter. Teeny. It didn't take too long before he wasn't so teeny and by 8 months was up there in size with everyone else. As they are smaller to begin with they have a more noticable, steady and gradual weight gain - losing weight on that journey isn't usually seen.
Anyway - no answer for you I know Thea - but hopefully of use.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on May 14, 2021 23:29:23 GMT -8
Thanks so much betty, that's really useful. I haven't been feeding her properly alone, I've just been leaving her a little pile of food every now and then when Pippa is asleep or doing something else. She normally doesn't take massive interest in it, she'll have a couple of things but then walk off. I'm not too worried about this though as she definitely eats when I do their main feed, and quite a bit too. I'm thinking from this that Pippa isn't 'taking' Mali's food (hopefully?). My girls are very different - Mali will eat until she's full and then go to do something else, but if I gave Pippa a small pile of food she'd sit and eat it all until it's gone! Anyway, I will start weighing her a few times a week to see how it changes (or doesn't change). That's a great idea, I'll start weighing something before weighing the gerbils to see if the weight for that changes. When I put Mali on the scales it jumped around everywhere - I couldn't tell if she was 50 or 52 or 58 or 64, but she sat on the edge of the bowl with a seed and I finally got 52g, but it could be that her sitting on the edge of the bowl didn't get her full weight (it wasn't a big bowl though). I do watch how she eats when I offer her seeds and I will continue to. She takes longer than Pippa to eat them and I have thought about that before, but Pippa literally devours them! Sometimes I can't even tell if she dropped the seed or ate it because she's so fast, but she always eats them. Mali takes around the same amount of time as my other gerbils have - a few seconds to eat a sunflower seed (while Pippa takes 2-3 seconds), and from what I can see she doesn't pause when eating them (or do anything else that you listed). I have wondered if she's like your example 2. Mali is a pretty active gerbil, seems to eat plenty and is bright-eyed and looks very healthy. She doesn't have as much energy as Pippa but Pippa is the most crazy gerbil I've had so far! Rolo was a pretty slim gerbil - I wish I'd weighed my other gerbils when they were younger but I didn't - but anyway, by the time she was 2 she was just over 90g so maybe Mali will gain weight as she gets older? Pippa definitely looks more like an adult gerbil than Mali, Mali is slimmer and smaller but it could be similar to this and she might naturally be smaller. Thanks again betty, some great ideas and it definitely helped to read your examples of small gerbils
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Thea
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Post by Thea on May 16, 2021 7:08:24 GMT -8
Weighed her again today and it was switching between 48 and 51g, but it was definitely very similar before (switching between 48/49, 52 and 58). It does worry me though! She's eating great (I've checked, she definitely doesn't pause when eating), looks bright and happy, is chewing fine, and doesn't really look 'skinny'. I'm using something now to check if the scales are correct as they often aren't, but I'm trying not to worry at least until I weigh her next (on Tuesday).
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Post by tanzanyte on May 17, 2021 3:08:44 GMT -8
Sorry for the delay, I started writing this several days ago and got sidetracked. Mymble and Little My were 2 months for the first date given and past 3 months at the weight you are saying Pippa and Mali are, so my 2 are quite a bit bigger than your girls. I think sometimes some gerbils are just lighter weight and perfectly proportioned. Look at MichelJacks elite teeny gorgeous gerbil, who seems to be doing amazingly well. I'll have to ask him how much he weighs now. Also there has been 10g weight difference between Pepsi and Max on multiple occasions (I didn't write all of the weights on here. I chose them spaced approx 1 month apart).
Pepsi and Max are now 9.5 months. Pepsi has all of a sudden shot up with his weight over the last month and finally caught up with Max, although goodness knows why. He seems ok and doesn't seem to have any change in routine etc. Something must have changed, but hopefully it's not a bad change and more to do with growing.
The scales thing fluctuating is true even on ours and we bought new electronic scales specifically for the gerbils. My daughter makes me laugh because she wags a finger and says 'down' as if they're a dog and will understand, although they often do disappear into the tissue box when she says it, but they pop back up seconds later.
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Thea
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Post by Thea on May 17, 2021 6:38:44 GMT -8
That's not a problem Thanks for the reply. Wow, my girls are quite light then, but hopefully that isn't a problem? They both seem fine and are perfectly proportioned as you say they can be - neither look 'skinny'. Ah yes I remember MichelJacks gerbil, I'd be interested to hear how much he weighs! That's very reassuring to hear that Pepsi and Max have had similar weight gaps to my girls, even if it was when they weighed more than mine do. I have heard of gerbils having sudden weight gains completely naturally - I'm sure Pepsi is fine! Hopefully Mali will eventually do the same and catch up with Pippa? Yes, scales aren't always correct! It's definitely good to keep track of their weights though, because I'm sure any weight loss will be picked up if every time it says Mali weighs less. She for sure doesn't look like she's loosing weight though, so that's why I'm trying not to worry too much if the scales move around loads when she's on them! My daughter makes me laugh because she wags a finger and says 'down' as if they're a dog and will understand, although they often do disappear into the tissue box when she says it, but they pop back up seconds later. Haha, that made me smile
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Post by Markpd on May 17, 2021 11:32:50 GMT -8
Me too .
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Thea
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Post by Thea on May 18, 2021 6:47:43 GMT -8
Weighed Mali again and she was switching from 52 to 53 I know it isn't the best, but I think the most important thing is that she isn't losing weight from what I can see. I'm worried that she isn't gaining weight, but at least she hasn't dropped.
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Post by Markpd on May 18, 2021 11:03:01 GMT -8
Good to hear she isn't losing weight at least!
Confusion with my boys, Avon has lost weight, but Blake has gained a little! Avon 106g, Blake 108g I'm not sure what to do now! lol, wait and weigh again in 2 weeks and decide then??
Avon ... date .... Blake 81g ... 24/11/20 .. 84g 81g ... 14/12/20 .. 83g 93g ... 12/01/21 .. 93g 93g ... 3/02/21 ... 92g 94g ... 26/02/21 .. 91g 98g ... 15/03/21 .. 95g 107g .. 6/04/21 ... 102g 108g .. 20/04/21 .. 101g 112g .. 04/05/21 .. 105g 106g .. 18/05/21 .. 108g
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Thea
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Post by Thea on May 19, 2021 6:41:08 GMT -8
Yes I think you should wait 2 weeks and do it again. Avon's weight is still completely fine of course, but it's pretty strange that he weighed more than Blake and now he weighs less than him (and the other way round). I'm sure it's fine but if Avon's weight goes down again and Blake's goes up, there could possibly be something going on with Blake eating more than Avon?
Have you got any pictures of Avon recently next to Blake? If not that's fine, but does one look skinnier/rounder than the other? Of course it wouldn't be a problem if one was larger and one was smaller, but it would be interesting to know if they're the same sort of size or not.
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