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Post by peeps on Jun 2, 2021 15:43:01 GMT -8
Hi!!!! K, so I have two male gerbils Remmy is about one and a half. He is a super sweet agouti pied. He was lone at the pet store so a little over a month ago I decided to get him a pal. The pal is a pretty young burmese who I named Odo. I'd been doing split cage for about a month when I first put them together, the reason I waited sol long was that they didn't really seem interested in each other, although they weren't being aggressive. Finally about ten days ago I put them together. At first I was tarrfied because it look like Odo was going to bite Remmy but then I realized he was just grooming him. Remmy let Odo groom him but his eyes were squeezed shut and I don't think he was enjoying it. After a little bit Odo tried to groom Remmys under side (chin and tummy) Remme didn't like it so they got into a little ball fight. I quickly separated them and the only damage done was a little bite on Remmys belly witch has already healed. So the next week (the day before yesterday) I put them together agin and this time I left the top on the geranium to give them some more room (I have been using a geranium and a hamster cage pushed together for my split cage). this time they were allot calmer then they were last time and now it was mostly Remmy grooming Odo although I did see Remme let Odo groom him as well. I kept a close eye on them for most of the day and the only issue was that Remmy was grooming Odo a little much. later I had to leave for a bit and when I came back they were sleeping together. I watched a movie with my family that night and when I checked on them before bed they were both standing on all fours looking at me. I was glad to see Remmy had taken a brake from grooming Odo and they were just chilling together intel I got closer and saw that they were bleeding. Remmy was bit on the chin and cheek and Odo was a little bloody on under his chin although it might have been Remmys blood.I separated them and they are known split cage again. My Questions: should I put them back together soon? Or not at all? Or just wait a while? Will they act aggressive after having been separated? is it ok to put them togrether for a few hours a day so I can watch them and then split them up again when I have to leave?
PS. there wounds are healing well and you can't really see them under all the fur.
PSS. thanks for reading I know it got kinda long.
update: I put them together this morning and Odo was being dominant. they got along a LOT better when Remmy was dominant and they got into a ball fight wear they chased each other. I checked them for wounds and didn't find any. Can somebody please give me a suggestion?
Ps. Remmy was acting kinda sleepy mabe its to early for him
Ps. I think mabe Odo being domantiant is what they decided when thy bit each other last time. but they were still being buddys after that so why are they fighting now?
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Post by betty on Jun 3, 2021 16:24:28 GMT -8
It doesn't sound like they are getting on - but that might be because of the split itself just as much as the pair of them.
If you are doing the traditions split method - do they have permanent contact with each other along one whole full side of their enclosures - and they have nowhere else to go or things to play with on each side? Do they get swapped over from side to side 3 times a day - without play times?
Fighting face to face usually is interpreted as two equal gerbils where they both want to be 'boss' and so are standing off in a kangeroo fight - usually with bites to the face, neck and tummy (weak spot and scent gland).
So, if you want to do the traditional split tank introduction with them - you will need to do it really strictly and expect a further 2 weeks minimum before it would be recommended to try another intro. One of them has got to get bored enough (or overwhelmed enough) to give up the fight. A big ask - but not impossible.
Alternatively - do read around on some old threads as a few people do their intros in a different way entirely and this may well seem quicker and more 'fun' like you suggested yourself - where they meet only in the run at play time and while always supervised until they appear to get on. I can't rmember the exact details of it (like was it a neutral enclosure they went into after the runs and whether they could sniff each other when in their cages and whether they were cage-swapped themselves or just some substrate was?). Hopefullly someone will pip in if they can remember more about it.
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Post by peeps on Jun 4, 2021 4:24:04 GMT -8
OK thanks for replying! I do think the split tank is kinda a problem the side of the hamster cage lines up with the side of the geranium (on the wire part) but they don't hang out at the border vary much. I swap them over at least once a day. I haven't really been holding them lately and they do seem to be getting bored. (Remmy is sleeping allot and Odo is digging at random things) do you have any suggestions on how I could do a better split cage? Also how would they help with a dominance thing? Just buy forcing each other to hang out?
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Post by betty on Jun 4, 2021 7:02:21 GMT -8
Yes, the idea is that the split cages are small and so they are sort of forced to share the same space - and regularly bump noses as they have nowhere else to be. The small space also allows their scents to mingle more easily so they 'believe' they are living in both halfs with each other.
These two things alone just aren't possible with a larger set up - so compare this to two 3-bed houses that share a front path, and two studio flats that share a balcony. Not quite an equal example but they don't 'need' to beomce friends if they aren't seeing each other - they can avoid each other without even trying.
This is also a great space to do their first introduction as it is small and easy to access and so if they do squabble, they are easy to put a pot over and divide up again. Not so easy in a larger set up with ladders and tiny hatch holes.
The alternate way is where some people have their cages close up like yours and swap substrate every so often or switch gerbils between set ups - and then do regular meet ups of the gerbils themselves every day for a week or so and sometimes familiarity can help rather than the scent. I haven't tried it this second way, so not sure what that looks like.
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Post by peeps on Jun 4, 2021 7:39:52 GMT -8
Ok! Thanks for the great explanation! I made a split for my cage this morning out of some wire mesh and one-ones it actually fits really nice and snug so I think will work. also how will I tell when one has decided to be submissive? if its the same as how you normally tell if they are ready to be together you don't need to explain what it looks like.
Thanks for reading!
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Post by betty on Jun 5, 2021 4:10:00 GMT -8
It's the same really - you want one of them to start ignoring or walking away from the other one. Usually in the early stages there is a sudden face off - and then the one who is 'accepting the new status quo as loser' will remember that they need to not fight and should either stay still a bit and then stand down and/or walk off. Usually the other one will stand still a bit longer and or offer a tiny fake chase (a step or two max) to let the other one leave 'knowing' they have won.
It is like us humans make a point about something, then have someone get the wrong end of the stick or try to tell us we are wrong/they are right, and then us saying to ourselves 'this isn't worth the hassle' and just stop talking. Thankfully, our work colleagues or schoolfriends don't usually hit us in the face or bite our bum!!!
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Post by peeps on Jun 12, 2021 13:54:18 GMT -8
Thanks! That makes allot of sense. My gerbils have been doing good in split cage, I think. They mostly ignore each other but sometimes they will push there noses threw the bars to let the other one groom/sniff them. It is super sweet. Also is it ok to only put a water bottle on one side as long as I switch them over three times a day? The left side doesn’t have access to the top part of the geriarum so there's not really any room for the bottle.
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Post by betty on Jun 12, 2021 16:01:33 GMT -8
Good that they are ignoring each other - but more importantly do they ignore each other AFTER having a sniff. If they totally ignore ecah other and have no interaction you won't know how they feel about each other. Always feed right up against the divide if you can so they have to come face to face once a day at least...
If you have a glass water bottle you can attach it straight to the divide with a wire 'belt' - or velcro one to the glass inide? If you really can't add a water bottle, then make sure there is always a good fresh chunk of carrot and cucumber in the bottle-less side. And potentially try to swap sides 5 times a day instead when you can, so they go for shorter periods without the bottle.
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Post by peeps on Jun 12, 2021 17:41:03 GMT -8
ok thanks! they sniff whenever I move them and pretty often other times. they both like to sleep when they are on the big side (the right side) so they are on different schedules. When I move them they get woken up so thats why they interact then. I will start switching them five times a day so that should help (: the problem with the water bottle isn't that I can't attach it its that its so tall its tip gets 100% under the bedding and they never youse it. I guess I could take away a little bedding... or make sure they have some juicy fruit like you said. Ok here is how a typical interaction goes: Remme chewing on the bars on the left side (they love to dig and chew on that side) Odo walks up to him and presses nose threw divider. Remme sniffs (maybe grooming) or presses his face to Odo's for a bit. (there eyes are always part closed when they do this and they look chill). after a bit Remme gets bored and goes back to what he was doing. (usually Remme is the one who gets bored first and Odo is the one who wants to sniff)
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Post by betty on Jun 13, 2021 8:49:07 GMT -8
I always took eyes closed to mean they were happy (accepting) of each other - but I have never really studied it closely enough to be 100% sure that is what it means.
Avoid fruit though (could just be what you quickly typed) use veg as it doesn't discolour as fast, so keeps its nutrients longer.
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Post by peeps on Jun 13, 2021 17:24:38 GMT -8
Ok, got it veggies not fruit. Thanks for replying, I will message again when I have an update. (:
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Post by georgina on Jun 15, 2021 7:30:01 GMT -8
How’s it going with the introduction now? I’m 4 days in with mine. Lots of scent marking, climbing, nibbling mesh from one. Sleeping in each other’s hideaways, some nose to nose. No grooming or sleeping close by yet.
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Post by peeps on Jun 18, 2021 4:03:34 GMT -8
I think Remme has decided to be submissive. He often wonders over to the divider and waits for Odo to come groom him. He closes his eyes when Odo is grooming witch is what he dose when I stroke him. He usually waits until Odo is done grooming to move away. They don’t sleep by divider, although they do sleep in each other’s beds. they sometimes sit next to it together two. Oh, and they try to chew threw the bars and Odo likes to stand on to legs to sniff Remme when he is in the topper part of the Gerareum. It has been two weeks since I put them into this split cage. I think I will try and put them together Soon.
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Post by peeps on Jun 18, 2021 6:04:35 GMT -8
Okay so actually I tryd to put them together just now and Odo got vary exited about grooming remme. Remme didn’t seem to like it at all when Odo groomed under his tummy so I separated them before they could fight
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Post by betty on Jun 19, 2021 15:06:32 GMT -8
Sounded promising though - did you try again yet?
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