|
Post by Markpd on Aug 2, 2021 11:42:00 GMT -8
Yea got ya, makes sense.
Would their be any advantage to temporarily removing the divider (for a few hours say) each evening after some weeks to allow them a more gradual re introduction? And separating them again when they can't be watched? (e.g when going to bed). Or would it be better to simply wait longer before (hopefully) permanently removing the divider?
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Aug 9, 2021 14:53:03 GMT -8
A little update, following a brief (a few minutes) accidental introduction yesterday (Avon sneaked under the lid I'd put between the 2 sides!) where they seemed to get on ok with much sniffing , I thought I'd try a brief (but longer) intro tonight. It spanned about 1/2 hr, at which point I removed Blake from the side I'd put him in last night. Their was quite a bit of sniffing again, and at 1st at least they got on ok, but it became clear that Blake was quite nervous of Avon, stretching out to sniff Avon and then sometimes zipping off after, on a couple of occasions this triggered Avon to chase him into the poster tube, the 1st time they both sat quietly for a good couple of minutes, an eternity by gerbils standards!), Blake inside, Avon at the entrance again. See this video
Later their was much squeaking from Blake when he went into the poster tube, and I saw Avon swish his tail on one occasion. So it didn't go great More videos (I'll sort them tomorrow).
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Aug 10, 2021 10:18:08 GMT -8
Should I leave another re-intro attempt for another couple of weeks? Or give short ones more attempts?
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Aug 10, 2021 10:28:27 GMT -8
It looks like you left the divider in and put them both on one side? It's better to take the divider out so that it's less like one gerbil invading the other's space and more like their spaces are being merged. I also wouldn't let them in the Rotastak or on the tank lids because that's like neutral space and they need to be in the tank where they've been split-tanked. People also usually take the wheels etc out and lower the bedding for introductions. It gives them less to be territorial over (especially since the wheel might have been a point of contention in the past) and it makes it easier for you to see what's going on when they can't hide behind things or go underground.
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Aug 10, 2021 11:55:56 GMT -8
Sort of, I did leave the divider in, although I tilted it over so that they could climb over it, but they didn't notice that. I left both lids off so they could come and go as they pleased, which resulted in them sometimes both being on the same side. I didn't remove the divider as I wouldn't have been able to put it back in without removing/moving large amounts of the bedding (although on the left side they have largely excavated it there anyway thinking about it). I'll remove it next time, I guess I'll just have to move the remaining bedding, rebuilding tunnels afterwards will give them something extra to do . Fair point about the Rotastak, I did actually block that off part way through that short intro. I'd left the wheel in so they didn't get bored when split, but of course it's easy to remove so I can do that for the next intro attempt. I'm not keen on leaving out for long though, as atm whoever's on the non wheel side shows noticeable signs of boredom (mesh chewing, chewing loo roll tubes quickly and digging lots). That's also why I haven't removed most of the bedding. Assuming a successful intro, how soon could I put the wheel back in afterwards?
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Aug 18, 2021 12:19:49 GMT -8
Well, it seems I've answered my own question . A week ago on Wednesday (11th) I removed the divider (initially it was a sort of 2nd roof, before I spotted how to remove it without removing most of the bedding) and wheel, blocked off access to the Rotastak and didn't give access to the sandpen. This was one of their 1st meetings that night - photos.app.goo.gl/68y9AH2Dof8ksaFdAMore videos, most are short, bar the 2 3 minute ones. Extensive grooming of Blake by Avon (nearly 3 minutes!) - photos.app.goo.gl/85BLhgENKAc6a2we6Looked for a moment like Avon was going to chase Blake into the tube again, but nope - photos.app.goo.gl/pe8XvwS3Nungxon17Random meeting (apologies for the angle change, I keep forgetting it doesn't switch mid filming) - photos.app.goo.gl/gbaWNHmpm3aSexzRA and photos.app.goo.gl/uRC31DBH5FcAhDao8Blake briefly grooming Avon - photos.app.goo.gl/PwNMCEgBcr859zEB8Extensive grooming of Blake by Avon again (again about 3 minutes!) - photos.app.goo.gl/UXyzdKg4KiGKUmaZ8Encounter in the tube (can't see much), just grooming? - photos.app.goo.gl/NZPFBhSSUoxzMFfRASo it seemed they were getting on well, and much better than previously, no real tension (bar 1 brief moment just prior to a video), no tail swishing or tunnel blocking by Avon, and no bolting away by Blake. As they were getting on well I left them together whilst I sorted dinner and myself out. The intention was to separate them again before I went to sleep, but when it came to it they had both gone to sleep and I couldn't wake them without destroying their tunnels, so rather than freaking them out I left them together. I did notice that they weren't sleeping together, which wasn't a great sign, but with a little trepidation I went to sleep anyway (with my bedroom door open wider than usual!). With no sign of trouble by the morning and still not being able to separate them as they were asleep again, I went to work. And later that evening on returning I found they were getting on fine , and they've been together since. For the 1st couple of days or so I noticed that sometimes Avon was sleeping on his own in odd places (sandbath and top of the hut), not seen that since, but due to them rearranging their tunnels I can't tell if they are sleeping together now either. After day 3 I put the wheel back in, no signs of trouble and Blake stopped chewing the mesh! A day or 2 after I allowed access to the Rotastak again, and again no problems, they generally seem chilled with each other too . 2 days ago I relented on Blakes 'begging' and allowed him access to the sandpen, along with Avon. They were fine in their, but Avon didn't stay long, and although I only allowed Blake to stay there about 5 minutes their was quite intense bullish sniffing by Avon to Blake when he returned, so I've stopped access to the sandpen again, and will for at least a week, maybe longer? So they seem to be getting on well, and I don't know if it's wishful thinking, but they seem to be more chilled together than they have been in a long time! Hopefully this will last this time!
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Aug 30, 2021 3:21:12 GMT -8
A small update, a somewhat concerning interaction, Blake forcefully groomed Avon, as in he flipped him on his back, pinned him down and then groomed him! Didn't last long (10-20s?), but this is totally out of character for Blake! Curiously, after Avon initially resisted trying to be flipped, he then submitted. After it was over they carried on as normal. I wonder if this is related to Avon now being lighter than Blake?? (linked, I assume you're still using that dodgy forum theme betty? ) Although they were both out of sorts after they were freaked out by something the day before (especially Blake, as well as thumping, he was doing a high pitched squeak in time with the thumping! I've never heard them do that before! I tried to catch it on video (linked), but by the time I was recording he had stopped squeaking).
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Aug 30, 2021 4:59:04 GMT -8
Daisy squeaks when thumping too. I was wondering if other gerbils did it too or just her! I'm not sure why Blake would have started doing it now though.
It sounds like there's still a fair bit of tension so I would keep an eye on them, especially Avon as you said he's lost weight, and he's been sitting on his own sometimes, and he's now being pushed about a bit by Blake. I would be worried that Blake might be bullying or excluding him.
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Aug 30, 2021 11:13:47 GMT -8
Avon hasn't been sleeping by himself since I last posted about it some weeks ago, at least as far as I can see, he certainly hasn't slept above ground since then anyway. So far, that's the 1st time I've seen Blake pushing Avon around, previously it's always been Avon, but I'll keep an eye on them anyway.....
Re thumping, I could barely hear the squeaking, and at 1st I wasn't sure he was, but when I looked closely I could see his jaw moving in time. Perhaps I just didn't hear it previously? Interesting to know that Lily does it too .
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Oct 3, 2021 9:10:44 GMT -8
Well, they've just had a massive proper de-clan! In the space of about an hour, between me having a late lunch and doing something in the garden. They apparently had 1 massive fight, when I came into the room I saw Blake 1/2 asleep in the sandbath and covered in blood, and Avon 1/2 asleep in the wheel and covered in blood (DON'T click on these if you're squeamish, but you can see Avon here and Blake here). Blake is limping quite badly on a front paw, Avon is very slightly too, but it doesn't seem to be stopping him using the wheel! (and despite being tired, although he's gone to sleep now).
Still in the process of splitting their cage (permanent split this time). Back at a later point....
Do I need to contact/see the vets for anti-biotics, or will they be ok healing on their own?
|
|
|
Post by catnut on Oct 3, 2021 13:25:05 GMT -8
soo sorry to hear they've declanned, not sure if they need a vet visit or not but if you are worried, i would get them checked esp. if Blake is still limping tomorrow as he may need pain meds.
|
|
|
Post by yeti218 on Oct 3, 2021 14:08:27 GMT -8
Oh I'm so sorry to hear this. This is so sad. Not sure about the antibiotics. I would at least call your vet and ask for an opinion. I've had vets offices advise me over the phone whether I should bring my pets in or just monitor them.
|
|
|
Post by gerbilord on Oct 4, 2021 8:25:59 GMT -8
I'm so sorry to hear this, I agree I would call your vet just in case. Hoping they recover ok. x
|
|
|
Post by Markpd on Oct 4, 2021 11:14:33 GMT -8
Thanks guys, I did indeed ring the local vets today, and whilst the nurse said she couldn't be totally sure without seeing them, she thought they'd probably not need antibiotics after she asked me various questions, and I said that even immediately after the fight I could see no open wounds or any bleeding (just a lot of blood stained fur ), and they both were eating and walking around later that evening. As far as I can tell, Blakes limp has completely gone today , and his fur has pretty much gone back to normal too, bar the odd missing patch. His activity levels are back to normal and he's been busy gerbiling tonight . Avon's activity seem to be at, or very near to normal, and whilst his fur is much cleaner than it was, it's still quiet dishevelled around his front 1/3.
|
|
|
Post by yeti218 on Oct 4, 2021 11:58:45 GMT -8
That's so good to hear. I'm happy they both seem to be recovering well.
|
|