Introduction after scent gland surgery - update

[ps25]

Hi  

I posted a while ago about attempting to introduce a male gerbil after he'd had his scent gland removed.  Here's an update - and so far its not the best news :-(

Background - PB had been living with his brother (Shadow) until a sudden and completely unexpected declan around their 2nd birthday (May).  I tried to pair PB with another younger male but despite good signs in the split tank, as I removed the barrier (it wasnt even fully out of the tank), PB attacked, straight into a furball fight!  I have never seen a potential intro go bad so quickly!  After that I put him into a 20g permanent split tank with his brother.  In July he went in for a scent gland tumor surgery and has fully recovered.  After several more weeks in the 20g split tank, I decided to try to reintroduce him to his brother.  By now they had been happily living next to each other for the whole summer.

I moved them into my regular 10g split tank and started doing 3x swaps every day.  Things looked very positive between them.  They often meet at the barrier and sleep in each others nests.  I dont think I've seen more friendly looking gerbils in a split tank.  Last weekend I removed the barrier.  Things were a little tense for a few minutes but Shadow soon calmed down and was obviously willing to pair up.  PB remained tense - mostly kept to himself with occasional approaches to sniff Shadow.  Then after about 20 mins, PB became much more stressed, puffed up, started tussling more.  So I decided to halt the intro and put the barrier back up for another week.  Yesterday I removed the barrier again.  This time neither gerbil  seemed tense to begin with.  They spent a few minutes head to head, sniffing each other with a little grooming.  Then after about 5 minutes there was a sudden shift and it turned into the beginnings of a fur ball (I was able to intervene before it got serious).  So they are back into their 20g permanent split again.

This is so frustrating.  They are both very friendly gerbils (too humans at least) and judging by their interactions with me and each other at the barrier, they are missing having a companion. I hate the thought of them living as single gerbils.  But PB is proving very difficult to pair up.  I dont know to what extent his scent gland tumor/lack of scent gland is adding to the difficulties but he is making life very hard for all of us :-(  

I haven't given up yet.  I'll try again in a few more weeks...

[yeti218]

Oh no. Sorry you're having so much trouble. Good luck.

[Markpd]

Thanks for updating us, very useful, but sorry it isn't going well!

Keep us posted on the next attempt!

[ps25]

Update from the third attempt at introduction. Close but didnt work out :-(

After another 2 weeks in the split tank, I removed the barrier yesterday. Things were very tense so I took a more hands on approach than I usually do. I used my gloved hand to keep them separated at any signs of aggression. I would do this for a few seconds before allowing them to approach each other again. After about 30 minutes of this it actually seemed like it was going to work. There was a point where they both obviously relaxed and there were periods of mutual grooming, sniffing etc. They even looked like they were going to settle down to sleep together. They sat side by side, ate, groomed themselves and each other.

Then things became tense again. I've no idea what caused this change. But suddenly they went back to aggressive posturing and unfortunately I wasnt quick enough to intervene and it went into the beginnings of a fight.

This is so frustrating. They both looked so relaxed when they were grooming and sitting side by side. And then it went bad again. :-(

[Markpd]

Gerbils are very weird aren't they!?
With how friendly my 2 are through the divider, you'd never know they had a fierce fight just over a week ago!

Are you going to try for a longer split? Or call it quits now?

Btw - By now they had been happily living next to each other for the whole summer.
How long was that for? (3 mths?) I'm looking at keeping my boys permanently split in their cage.

[ps25]

They are back in their permanent split again. I think this might be it for them. Although I hate the idea of them living the rest of their lives alone (they are 2.5 years) so I might try again in another month or so...

[Markpd]

Fair enough, my boys are only a little over 1yr old, for now I'm going to see how they get on in a permanent split.
I've no plans to re-intro them again, although I have wondered whether it would be possible when they are much older, say at least another year.

[ps25]

So now I am completely confused.

After the disaster at the weekend, my two boys went back into a permanent split with fresh bedding and no swapping. Tonight (5 days later), I did something I have never done before. I was short on time tonight so I allowed them both out at playtime together. I figured the relationship couldnt get any worse and I'd at least get chance to play with them both. And they acted like they were best friends - butt sniffing, grooming, scampering past each other etc. All without any problems. So what is going on? Do they still remember each others scent but not the fight? Are they happy to be neighbours and playmates, but not actually live together? Dare I do this again???  

[barryozzy]

I guess maybe the problem was that they are fighting over territory? Maybe meeting in neutral territory was but in the cage there's more scent of the one with the scent gland? Since them meeting elsewhere worked, I would maybe try giving their whole enclosure a good clean to see if that makes any difference

[Markpd]

Makes sense, worth a shot I think!

Are they happy to be neighbours and playmates, but not actually live together? Dare I do this again???/

Possibly, see how future play sessions go I suppose, and watch them through out.

[ps25]

I did try the joint play session again. The second time was just like the first, good fun for everyone. Mutual sniffing, grooming, scampering etc. At one point, PB actually raised up his butt and backed onto Shadows face to insist on butt sniffing LOL.

The third attempt also started out well. Then just like in the split tank intro, during a mutual sniffing, PB suddenly lunged and bit Shadow. No serious injuries, but thats the end of this idea. And definitely the end of any attempts to put them together.

[Markpd]

How odd, but yea agreed.

After an accidental and brief intro of my 2 boys last week (they didn't attack each other). I wondered if it would be possible to have them at least 'play' together in the sandpen with me supervising (they both use it separately normally, and I can easily separate them there too if need be). I briefly let them both in the sandpen yesterday, and for the minute or so they were in there they got on ok, then Avon left. Today I put them in their and within seconds they were side by and arching backs! I instantly split them before it escalated.
I may try them again in the sandpen in 3-6 mths, but even if that works out when they're older, I would never trust them to live together again.

[ps25]

Glad you were watching and able to separate them before things got too serious. I thought it was too good to be true that they could roam together. After 2.5 great play sessions, I was starting to relax and think that joint play time might work out but it didnt. I hate the idea of them living alone but what can we do??? Its their nature :-(

[Markpd]

Yea, well so far my boys seem quite content living side by side, perhaps them being able to sniff each other through the mesh divider, and being able to see and hear each will be enough social contact??

Time will tell!

I would love to know if anyone has done this before, whether successful or not.

Perhaps I should start a new thread asking that?