Mama aggression toward older pups

[wendybird]

First litter is almost 6 weeks. New litter born 48 hours ago. Mama seems extremely protective and stressed. I separated the father and male pups from the older litter out to reduce the crowding. There are 3 females from the first still there to help. They are in a 40 gallon so not small. But now I see there are red marks on the older females at the base of the tail. Could this be from mama chasing them possibly?

[Thelodar]

Yes, this can happen and can be fatal. In the wild older pups may be chased out of the colony when new pups arrive. In a tank there is no where to go, so mom can end up killing them. I'd remove the injured female with one of her sisters and leave mom with just one daughter to help out. Monitor closely to make sure she calms down and isn't showing aggression towards the one you leave in or you may have to pull her too.

[wendybird]

All 3 babies have signs of aggression on their tails. Should I leave none of them with her? Should mama just raise the babies on her own? I pulled the dad because she has large letters so I wanted to give her a break.

[betty]

Sorry for the delay in replying - how is mum doing now?

how did you change things up?

[wendybird]

Thank you for checking in Betty 🤎

I ended up removing all of the older pups and the sire because I did not want her getting pregnant again after this behavior. She targeted the female pups, poor little things. A few of them were losing hair but it appeared to be from stress. Two weeks after separation the fur was filling back in and they are in their new homes.

This is the first time I've had a mother raising a litter on her own, and there are 8 pups. She seems very neurotic and jumpy. But I feel like there is nothing really I can do right? They are not even 3 weeks old so they have to stay with her. I'm afraid she is going to hurt them but maybe that is unlikely. I would love to hear wisdom from more experienced breeders.

She was 4 months old when bred the first time. Could this be because she was too young? I feel like all the females from this line are a little neurotic. Could that be a trait within the line? I've not had any other females so I have nothing to compare it to. Are male gerbils more laid back in general?

[betty]

Did she settle down a bit on her own in the end?

Males are certainly more laid back for sure - but most female gerbils are too - you may just be unlucky here.

There can be a few that get more stressed than others when they have a litter - and it is certainly something you want to take note of when breeding any of her offspring down the line to see if they are the same - as potentially it is a learned behaviour and something you really don't want to put more mums and pups through.

He behaviour towards the older pups isn't unusual depending on the females general behaviour (some demand more enrichment that others) and I wouldn't penalise her for feeling fussed about being overcrowded - particularly if it was a smaller, exposed or less enriched enclosure.

Hopefully, if you are able to take out all but one of the pups at a younger age this time - she will be happy to retire off with a daughter (ideally one that you don't want to continue the line with) and she can then relax. Having done her part in the breeding program she won't have to be stressed anymore and can chill.

[wendybird]

She seems high strung in general. She is a PEW and it seems like they are more likely to be nervous and jumpy in my experience. Even though she had been raising a large litter on her own she is doing a fantastic job! So proud of her.

You mentioned a lack of enrichment. From my research a nursery tank should be kept more plain as to not stress out the mom to spend her energy on anything other than rearing. You are saying the opposite? I would like to hear more about this and your experiences.

So much to learn so little a whelping period 😂

[betty]

Yes, I was refering to that fact that most people keep their females and pups in a less-enriched enclosure (mainly for safety and energy saving) and I was meaning that if a female is more active than other gerbils in their normal enclosures, then a nursery tank can be too much (or in fact too little of course) and they find other things to do to relieve their stress (including over groom and destroy things).

Perhaps, adding a massive pile of shredded paper, cardboard boxes or hay to chew up could move her attention to something else (without using to many calories) - or maybe even a wheel if she likes wheels (raised up higher than a pup can reach) could help her run off steam.