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Post by alen78 on Jun 13, 2022 8:52:03 GMT -8
Taking one gerbil out of the trio to introduce to him might be an option, but there's a risk of destabilising the trio if you pick the wrong one. You definitely don't want to remove the dominant gerbil because, firstly, he's already decided he doesn't want your older gerbil around, and secondly, it might cause the remaining pair to fight over dominance. Unfortunately if you took one out the trio to introduce to your older gerbil, and it didn't work out, you wouldn't be able to reintroduce him to the remaining pair, so you'd then have two lone gerbils. The same would apply when your older gerbil dies. But he lived with all 3 of them for 40 days. So in fact he doesn't have to be re-introduced to one of the 2 non-hostile gerbils. They aleready have a bond. Or you think this bond was broken today, after he was taken away? I'm still fairly new to gerbils so I still have to learn how do they behave.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jun 13, 2022 8:55:31 GMT -8
Taking one gerbil out of the trio to introduce to him might be an option, but there's a risk of destabilising the trio if you pick the wrong one. You definitely don't want to remove the dominant gerbil because, firstly, he's already decided he doesn't want your older gerbil around, and secondly, it might cause the remaining pair to fight over dominance. Unfortunately if you took one out the trio to introduce to your older gerbil, and it didn't work out, you wouldn't be able to reintroduce him to the remaining pair, so you'd then have two lone gerbils. The same would apply when your older gerbil dies. But he lived with all 3 of them for 40 days. So in fact he doesn't have to be re-introduced to one of the 2 non-hostile gerbils. They aleready have a bond. Or you think this bond was broken today, after he was taken away? I'm still fairly new to gerbils so I still have to learn how do they think. They wouldn't be total strangers but they would have to work out a new social hierarchy for just the two of them. I'm not sure whether it would be safe to put them straight together or whether you would have to do a split cage first. Hopefully someone else can advise on that?
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Post by alen78 on Jun 13, 2022 9:04:10 GMT -8
But he lived with all 3 of them for 40 days. So in fact he doesn't have to be re-introduced to one of the 2 non-hostile gerbils. They aleready have a bond. Or you think this bond was broken today, after he was taken away? I'm still fairly new to gerbils so I still have to learn how do they think. They wouldn't be total strangers but they would have to work out a new social hierarchy for just the two of them. I'm not sure whether it would be safe to put them straight together or whether you would have to do a split cage first. Hopefully someone else can advise on that? Thank you for your opinion. For now I will leave the older gerbil alone for at least few days, so he can recover from the shock. And I will try to find the best solution meantime. Of course every suggestion of the forum members is welcome.
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Post by Markpd on Jun 16, 2022 14:01:14 GMT -8
I'm sorry to hear they've declanned. I wouldn't suggest trying to rebond your older gerbil with the trio because it's unlikely to work, and it's likely to cause him more stress than just keeping him on his own. The trio (or at least the dominant one of the trio) have made their decision that they don't want him around anymore, he knows it and probably accepts it, and there's no point us humans trying to change that. Taking one gerbil out of the trio to introduce to him might be an option, but there's a risk of destabilising the trio if you pick the wrong one. You definitely don't want to remove the dominant gerbil because, firstly, he's already decided he doesn't want your older gerbil around, and secondly, it might cause the remaining pair to fight over dominance. Unfortunately if you took one out the trio to introduce to your older gerbil, and it didn't work out, you wouldn't be able to reintroduce him to the remaining pair, so you'd then have two lone gerbils. The same would apply when your older gerbil dies. While there was a fairly high risk of a declan in this situation anyway, it's possible that your setup contributed to it. I can see you have a cage connected to a tank via a tube. Connected enclosures like this are considered a risk factor for a declan (as the gerbils can easily identify and claim separate territories, and the narrow tubes are easily defended). A single, large space is safer. This, totally agree about the cage setup, unfortunately that kind of setup is very likely to promote a declan for the reasons L&D said. And with this setup your remaining 3 brothers are at a higher risk of declanning themselves too.
I think perhaps you missed L&D's message as you posted at nearly the same time, hence quoting it. Sorry to hear about the declan btw .
LilyandDaisy betty et al, do you think a declan between the 3 brothers is less likely than one of the brothers living with the older gerbil? (assuming the right one was picked).
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Post by Markpd on Jun 16, 2022 14:09:10 GMT -8
Taking one gerbil out of the trio to introduce to him might be an option, but there's a risk of destabilising the trio if you pick the wrong one. You definitely don't want to remove the dominant gerbil because, firstly, he's already decided he doesn't want your older gerbil around, and secondly, it might cause the remaining pair to fight over dominance. Unfortunately if you took one out the trio to introduce to your older gerbil, and it didn't work out, you wouldn't be able to reintroduce him to the remaining pair, so you'd then have two lone gerbils. The same would apply when your older gerbil dies. But he lived with all 3 of them for 40 days. So in fact he doesn't have to be re-introduced to one of the 2 non-hostile gerbils. They already have a bond. Or you think this bond was broken today, after he was taken away? I'm still fairly new to gerbils so I still have to learn how do they behave. I've read stories where people have separated gerbils just to take one to the vets, and later on they don't appear to recognise each other and don't get on! That might be rather unusual for that short a period. But from what I've learnt, if they're separated for more than a day or so, you'll need to do a split intro to reintroduce them.
I'm leaning towards the idea that you pick out the right brother to intro with the old boy, but similar to what L&D said, it's not impossible that intro wouldn't work out. Although in your/their favour, they did once live together fine!
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jun 16, 2022 14:19:34 GMT -8
Yes, now they've been apart for a few days you would definitely need to do a split tank.
I'm not sure about declanning rates in a trio vs an unrelated pair with "prior history". I know pairs tend to be fairly stable in any case, but when you have an immature gerbil and an adult, there's always the risk that the younger gerbil will want to be dominant when he gets older.
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Post by alen78 on Jun 17, 2022 7:09:14 GMT -8
Thank you for your answers girls/guys. I think we will leave the trio together and leave the old fella alone. It looks he is very scared after he was attacked twice. We have tried the split tank method with one of the 2 other pups...he just run in a corner of his enclosure and he was shaking. It looks he is not ready to start a new connection with one of the younger gerbils and we will not try it again. Regarding the remark that our setup is very likely to promote a declan of the trio... Do you think this enclosure would be better for them (I'm thinking to order it)? www.wiltec.de/en/Wooden-Rodent-Cage-115x60x58cm-3-Floors-Window-for-Hamster-Mice-etc/60192It has a lot of space (115 x 60 x 58 cm or 45 x 23 x 23 inches => 107 gallons of total space), it's an open space (no tunnels like the one connecting the cage and aquarium we have now) and is made of wood. We would just move the 3 stairs from the bottom and fill that part with bedding. We just have to add a wheel somewhere. The setup we have now would be used again by the senior. At least he would have a lot of space (37 gallons cage + 12 gallons aquarium) for his retirement years. And we would fill it with a lot of toys, to make him at least a bit more happy now he is alone.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jun 17, 2022 12:25:05 GMT -8
You could use that cage, but you would need to do a lot of gerbil proofing on the exposed wooden edges. You could use either either aluminium corner profiles, or aluminium sheet metal. You also wouldn't be able to use the front door with deep bedding, but I've heard some people have found a way to swap the door and the front panel, so the door is on top. There is also a rectangular version of that cage which might be more suitable: www.wiltec.de/en/Wooden-Hamster-Cage-115x60x58cm-3-Floors-Acryl-Glass-Front-Rodent/60194
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Post by sparkbubble on Jun 17, 2022 13:06:22 GMT -8
I was wondering about that. Do they tell you what kind of wood they use?
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jun 17, 2022 13:08:45 GMT -8
I was wondering about that. Do they tell you what kind of wood they use? I've read elsewhere that these cages are made of fir wood, which is dubious in shaving form but should be fine in solid form.
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Post by alen78 on Jun 17, 2022 15:04:30 GMT -8
You could use that cage, but you would need to do a lot of gerbil proofing on the exposed wooden edges. You could use either either aluminium corner profiles, or aluminium sheet metal. You also wouldn't be able to use the front door with deep bedding, but I've heard some people have found a way to swap the door and the front panel, so the door is on top. There is also a rectangular version of that cage which might be more suitable: www.wiltec.de/en/Wooden-Hamster-Cage-115x60x58cm-3-Floors-Acryl-Glass-Front-Rodent/60194Just to be clear. You are saying that the 2nd cage is better because it has less corners and those are less at risk of been devoured by gerbils? 😅 I've chosen the 1st one because it looks much better (but the size is the same as the 2nd one). I haven't thought that it would be more at risk. I haven't ordered it yet, so your suggestion is welcome. 😉 Anyway, is a wooden cage a good option for gerbils? Or just a big treat for them to be destroyed sooner or later? 🤣
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Jun 17, 2022 15:13:12 GMT -8
You could use that cage, but you would need to do a lot of gerbil proofing on the exposed wooden edges. You could use either either aluminium corner profiles, or aluminium sheet metal. You also wouldn't be able to use the front door with deep bedding, but I've heard some people have found a way to swap the door and the front panel, so the door is on top. There is also a rectangular version of that cage which might be more suitable: www.wiltec.de/en/Wooden-Hamster-Cage-115x60x58cm-3-Floors-Acryl-Glass-Front-Rodent/60194Just to be clear. You are saying that the 2nd cage is better because it has less corners and those are less at risk of been devoured by gerbils? 😅 I've chosen the 1st one because it looks much better (but the size is the same as the 2nd one). I haven't thought that it would be more at risk. I haven't ordered it yet, so your suggestion is welcome. 😉 Anyway, is a wooden cage a good option for gerbils? Or just a big treat for them to be destroyed sooner or later? 🤣 I do hope they're a good option for gerbils because I bought one (the 2nd one) myself the other day! I haven't assembled it or done anything to it yet. I think it should be fine if all the exposed edges are protected against chewing. I chose the 2nd one because there seemed to be fewer wooden edges needing protection, because I preferred the shape, and because the front is solid so dust won't fall out. But the other one is fine too.
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