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Post by wendybird on May 27, 2022 15:26:35 GMT -8
We are breeding gerbils so my daughter can learn about genetics and having a blast. We are currently on our 8th litter and decided our goal is to create one of "every" color. To keep it simple I'm not going deep into color point, spotted, and light. Clearly there is some debate on what colors are acceptable so I've tried to look at several lists and this is what I've come up with. Help me fill in the blanks! Any suggestions are appreciated  Agouti Argente Argente Cream Black Blue Burmese Color Point Dark Eyed Honey Dove Grey Agouti Ivory Cream Light Dark Eyed Honey Lilac Nutmeg Polar Fox Saffron Schimmel Siamese Silver Nutmeg Slate Strawberry Cream Topaz White Black Eyed White Dark Tailed White Pink Eyed White Ruby Eyed Spotted Pied Mottled |
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Post by betty on May 29, 2022 7:52:21 GMT -8
I think - to best learn about genetics fully - you would be best to start with what you have first and drill down into the details for a greater understanding.
Have your 'codes' made up for all your possible healthy breeding animals and then you can identify which ones have gaps (hidden genes) in their code. Knowing this could therefore enable you to identify some of the colours you don't have now but have the genes to do so if you planned for. Rather than aim simply to create 'colours' - you will learn far more about genetics by trying to work out the results of a litter you have already planned - and actually seeing what the results were - and why they may not be what you expected. It is always great to know your answers first and work backwards.
Also, knowing that all the available gerbil colours pair up across the A or a sides can double up your colours if you know both parents match up for Aa and *a. So Agouti is paired with Black; Grey Agouti with Slate etc. This halves the effort of producing new colours - but sometimes increase the 'test' breeding process early on.
Knowing in advance these individual 'codes' for each animal will also tell you which gerbils NOT to breed from for certain colours - and will help prevent unwanted/excessive litters for your females. This is a huge help as your litters for each female will be limited of course so you won't want to breed them if you already know their genes aren't compatible for your goals.
Breeding for 'rainbow' litters is also quite inconclusive as often there are say 20+ possible colours - but only end up with 7 pups and so the actual colours you can get are superfluous to the actual genes you know you have. Trying to get a Dove from a rainbow litter could be like chasing an actual rainbow, but if you see a Siamese in the litter you know it was possible - just didn't happen this time (like spinning a one-armed bandit).
Many show breeders have to focus down the genes in a line to keep getting certain colours in enough numbers to improve the line or 'fix' the colour - and of course the more you have to fix the colour - the less other colours the pairing can have each litter. Also, some elusive colours can ONLY be made with a matching colour that you didn't actually want unless your lines are pure - another reason to drill deep on your missing or 'second' genes.
So unless you want to purposefully create far more gerbils than you will ever need - I would aim to focus on learning about what you have already in perfect details over the next 6 months or so before branching out into new colours. I started with a very limited palate myself and I feel I learned far more about genetics and inheritance than I would have done otherwise.
It is like one giant sudoku!
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Post by wendybird on May 29, 2022 21:02:56 GMT -8
Thank you for your long and thoughtful response! I have a biology background so genetics are not new to me. I am using gerbils to teach her about alleles, recessives, punnent squares etc. She already gave a talk at her school and can go on and on about the pink eyed gene, it's adorable.
I was just looking to create a master list of commonly accepted colors 🙃
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Post by betty on May 31, 2022 7:39:29 GMT -8
Does she know about the linked genes that are associated with the pink eyed gene - if not - that might be a nice segue.
As for 'accepted colours' I am not sure what you mean exactly as there are several possibilities depending on your home country. For example, the colours 'for shows' are not all the colours genetically - similarly the same name is given to a one or more genotypes whether they are the same exact phenotype or not.
Best thing for you to do for a thorough stocktake would be to make up the table/list for all the possible genotypes and then fill in all the colours you know already know for sure. Then work out the ones that you think are duplicate phenotypes - and then perhaps post all the remaining genotypes you have that could well be a 'new' colour you don't already have listed and some of the breeders/showers (ideally in your home country) can fill in the gaps.
It is also fun to see what breeders in other countries call the same genotypes as it is sometimes quite different - but will make sense of info you find on other websites out there already - for example Schimmel is also called 'mold' and Saffron is sometimes called Red Fox.
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Post by wendybird on Jun 10, 2022 5:55:37 GMT -8
Yes! We have noticed the trend for several names for the same color. And the fact that things like nutmeg and light nutmeg look the same but the genetics are different. Since we will not be breeding all of them to find out their genotype I figured we will stick to the phenotype.
Thank you for all your suggestions!!!
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