12 week old gerbils declanning? Advice needed!

[icecontroller2529]

Update



Today it’s exactly a week since Rob and Adam had their stressful situation. Adam is the dominant gerbil.


In the meantime, they have been in their normal enclosure, just with a divider in between. They did not manage to climb to the other gerbil’s side again (did I mention that Rob kept climbing over to Adam all through the first night?). They seem to be doing alright. They spend a lot of their time running. We ordered a second wheel so that they both have one. During the first days, they’ve started digging the glass in the corners, but it has become less. Rob still seems to be wanting to find ways to get to Adam’s side, but seems to have accepted there is no way at the moment.


We’re not going to start a split tank period yet, mostly because we don’t have a split yet. Still need to find someone to build it for us.


A new question has appeared: Are we doing it wrong when keeping them together in the same tank, only with a wall in between, with their old bedding? Should they be completely separated with neutral bedding, unable to smell and hear each other? It seems more plausible for me to keep the group smell as much as possible. Also, we don’t have an extra tank, only a huge cardboard box for emergencies.


That's all right now. Things seem to be going okay at the moment.

[Markpd]

I think that's ok, I actually had in mind for a divider a framed mesh. But a wall to start off with is probably better actually, they're more likely to calm down if they can't see or touch each other at all?
Although a few days prior to starting the split properly I think you should switch to a meshed divider, see how they interact with limited contact and clear sight.

Glad things are going ok atm anyway

Re meshed divider, no DIY tools at your place?

[icecontroller2529]

Feb 1, 2023 13:05:28 GMT -8 Markpd said:

I think that's ok, I actually had in mind for a divider a framed mesh. But a wall to start off with is probably better actually, they're more likely to calm down if they can't see or touch each other at all?
Although a few days prior to starting the split properly I think you should switch to a meshed divider, see how they interact with limited contact and clear sight.

Glad things are going ok atm anyway

Re meshed divider, no DIY tools at your place?

Sorry, I might not have been clear. We kept them in the same tank and used a large wooden bendy bridge to keep them apart. That bridge divider had been in their before; we used it to divide our large tank for the gerbils' first weeks. The gerbils lived in one side of the tank while the other side was empty. So in the beginning, they had less than half of the whole tank to live in, then we gradually moved the divider so that they would slowly have more room. 
So when they were fighting, the same divider/bendy bridge was used to keep them apart. 

[icecontroller2529]

Update – how to go on now?



Hello again, I have an update and some questions.


The gerbils have been separated for two weeks now. It’s hard for me to say how they are doing. On the one hand, they seem to be doing fine. On the other hand, I’m not sure whether they are nervous, stressed or whatever. There were moments when they have been scratching at the dividing wall, trying to get to the other side. Whenever I played with one of them, he would climb up my arm and try to look over to his brother’s side, looking for a way to get there. So they are very much aware of the other one, but I have no idea whether that means they miss each other or whether there is aggression.


Today, we got the split divider someone built for us. It looks good to me, some solid wood and fine mesh. It’s a bit tight, I hope the glass won’t burst.


Now – what should we do now? I have been reading more about it in the meantime and I’m insecure, mainly about two things:

1. The boys have been separated, but they are in the same tank with the bedding they had before. Should we have separated them completely, so that they can’t see, hear and smell each other? (We don’t have another tank to do so btw.)

2. And if we start the split tank period – should we then use clean bedding, or should we just keep the old bedding with their smell?


To me, it seemed obvious to keep their group smell as much as possible, but I found texts about neutral smell etc.


My plan right now is to take out the dividing wall and put in the mesh divider in the next days.


What do you think? Any advice is welcome.

[icecontroller2529]

Update



Unfortunately, I didn’t get any answers to my questions, so I had to take a decision myself, and I decided to leave the old bedding in and start the split tank period. Today.



We put in the mesh divider and took out the dividing wooden bridge. So they were able to “meet” again after two and a half weeks. The first encounter at the mesh seemed very positive to me, curious and even friendly. I had expected Adam to show aggression, but he didn’t at first.

After a while, I did see some aggressive behaviour when Adam was “attacking” the wire a bit (could have been worse, I guess). Adam seemed excited, scratching the mesh and swishing his tail. Rob was just the sweet gerbil he is, no aggression at all. Friendly sniffing at first, then he went away.



I had left in the wheels on purpose, hoping the gerbils would run away their stress instead of focussing on their aggression. It seemed to work. Adam started running for a moment. But well, he was also showing a lot of territorial behaviour, marking his area of the tank quite a lot. I’m a bit worried about him.



After about 15 minutes, both gerbils disappeared underground to take a nap.



So I guess we’ll leave them in like this for a while, and at some point start swapping sides. Maybe in a week or so?



As always, any advice is welcome.

[icecontroller2529]

Update



The entire situation is so different from our earlier split tank experiences! No stressed gerbils scratching corners in panic for hours in a tiny tank! They are able to move, they can run in the wheels or dig (they’ve got about 10 to 15 cm or 4 to 6 inches of bedding material), and they seem to be doing more or less fine.

Rob continues to be highly interested in his brother, sometimes intensely trying to get to his side.

Adam is quite territorial, sliding around on his belly more than usual.

When they meet at the divider, there is a moment of sniffing, then they race away to their wheels and run. This is what I had been hoping for. I hope that this will be conditioning them into dealing with stress and/or aggression by running instead of fighting, even in the future when they hopefully will live together again.

[LilyandDaisy]

I'm sorry, I missed your post before. I don't it would have made much difference either way with the bedding.

Personally I would wait until Adam is less territorial before starting to swap sides. I wouldn't rush the process at all but take it really slowly.

[icecontroller2529]

Feb 12, 2023 13:35:17 GMT -8 LilyandDaisy said:

I'm sorry, I missed your post before. I don't it would have made much difference either way with the bedding.

Personally I would wait until Adam is less territorial before starting to swap sides. I wouldn't rush the process at all but take it really slowly.

Thanks for you answer, Lily and Daisy!

So he should be less territorial before swapping sides. He's always been a bit territorial, so we will have to see how it develops.

[icecontroller2529]

Update



To someone who has only seen extreme distress with split introduction situations, I can barely believe what I saw yesterday.

Yes, they are stressed, especially Rob, but I don’t see aggression. Adam was sitting next to the mesh divider calmly, munching his food, not paying attention to Rob who was on the other side excitedly digging.

They slept a lot, these two are quite nocturnal (which is perfect because we have them in the bedroom), and when I went to bed last night I found both gerbils sleeping. Rob had had his nest next to the divider already before we took out the massive divider and replaced it with the mesh divider. Now, Adam had built a nest next to the divider, too, exactly where Rob has his. I was so happy when I saw them sleeping “next to each other”.

Rob has been restless all day. He is running around without being able to really do anything. He jumps into the wheel, runs two steps, jumps out, into the bedding, digs, grabs a kitchen towel to start ripping it, drops it, jumps into the wheel, out of the wheel … He is busy with the divider quite a lot. Keeps digging next to it and climbs up the mesh. He also seems to rub his belly to the wooden frame, so marking his territory.

I’ve had another sleepless night, listening to the gerbils, worried that Rob would make it into Adam’s area. There is gap of about 13 mm (half an inch) between the top of the divider and the roof/lid. The gerbils were active all night, I think they were both running but I’m not sure.

New day now. They should be coming out for breakfast soon. Oh wait, I’ll go and see …



… Yes, they were out and greeting me happily. Adam was a bit excited but not aggressive. Rob was hyperactive again, jumping and running all over the place. Too excited for the food I offered, he raced up my arm, sitting on my shoulder looking for a way to reach his brother. Next moment, he was on his way to Adam climbing the mesh divider, so I closed the lid again.


Edit, an hour later:

Both gerbils are very excited. There is aggression. I've been watching them over a longer period and they keep meeting at the divider, Adam being clearly aggressive. Rob runs away to the wheel after a while, whereas Adam seems to be patrolling the border. 

[LilyandDaisy]

Adam does seem to be very territorial. I wonder if there is something about him that caused the declan at such a young age? I think it is unusual for gerbils to declan so young.

[icecontroller2529]

Feb 14, 2023 7:46:36 GMT -8 LilyandDaisy said:

Adam does seem to be very territorial. I wonder if there is something about him that caused the declan at such a young age? I think it is unusual for gerbils to declan so young.

Good question. I wonder if there is something wrong with him.
I had not expected that either. Not that early, and I felt there was nothing to declan over. But well, maybe it was the wheel. Both boys absolutely love running, maybe Adam was getting territorial about the wheel. It's the only explanation I can think of.

[Markpd]

Sorry I was away from the forum for a few days, glad to see you've got things in hand, even if it doesn't look like it's going to be a quick intro!
My guess would have been to keep the old bedding too, interesting to see it probably wouldn't have made much difference.

[icecontroller2529]

Feb 14, 2023 12:48:34 GMT -8 Markpd said:

Sorry I was away from the forum for a few days, glad to see you've got things in hand, even if it doesn't look like it's going to be a quick intro!
My guess would have been to keep the old bedding too, interesting to see it probably wouldn't have made much difference.

Thanks for your advice. 

Weird thing, this bedding question. 


Update from the split tank

The atmosphere keeps changing. Sometimes there is aggression and lots of excitement/restlessness, then again there isn't.  

[betty]

Thanks for the regular updates - its a real rollercoaster!

There is a possiblility that there is something that is affecting his behaviour - and preventing him from being able to react in a usual gerbil manner. I had two gerbils at either end of the social scale who didn't understand gerbil etiquette. One couldn't live with another gerbil as she was clearly giving out the wrong signals and other geribls just wouldn't tolerate living with her for more than a few days or months - and the other was totally oblivious to the usual rules and just plodded along pleasing only herself. She lived happily with 3 other tank-mates one after the other.

[icecontroller2529]

Feb 15, 2023 10:18:41 GMT -8 betty said:

Thanks for the regular updates - its a real rollercoaster!

There is a possiblility that there is something that is affecting his behaviour - and preventing him from being able to react in a usual gerbil manner. I had two gerbils at either end of the social scale who didn't understand gerbil etiquette. One couldn't live with another gerbil as she was clearly giving out the wrong signals and other geribls just wouldn't tolerate living with her for more than a few days or months - and the other was totally oblivious to the usual rules and just plodded along pleasing only herself. She lived happily with 3 other tank-mates one after the other.

 Thanks for your reaction, betty.

And yes, it is a rollercoaster. Still. I'm quite pessimistic as to these guys' future together.

Thanks for sharing the experience with those socially deviating gerbils. 


Update after 6 days in a split tank situation

Rob and Adam have been sitting in their large tank, with a mesh divider, for almost a week now. The situation doesn't seem to be changing much. Both gerbils have their nests as far away from the other as possible. Both are excited and restless. Rob has been showing more and more territorial behaviour in his half. He is very stressed, almost can't calm down enough to eat. Or sleep. 
When they meet at the divider, they both seem excited but not overly aggressive. They climb up the mesh a bit but don't seem to bite or dig it. 

I don't know what to think of all of this. Or how to continue. I'm just scared of another failed introduction as I've never seen a successful one.