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Post by buckthegerb on Apr 9, 2023 21:46:14 GMT -8
I have 12 gerbils. 4 girls, 7 boys, 1 un-gendered pup. I have 2 introducing (split cage) cages set up and am trying to rebuild de-clanned gerbils. The boys are broken into 4,1,1,1. The girls are broken into 1,1,1,1. Might I add... one girl is prego, very large. 1 girl is currently in recovery from the de-clanning, all wounds are healed, just growing back fur. 1 girl has the pup. I don't want to stress the pup with split cage interactions. The last girl is fine. I need to put them back together. Any and all help is welcomed. I am feeling very down about my situation as my past bonding attempts have been wrecked. Please help, thank you so much. Also please be patient with me I have only had them for 1 year.
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Post by icecontroller2529 on Apr 9, 2023 22:21:28 GMT -8
Hello,
That sounds pretty bad. Good thing you're asking for help.
I have some questions:
Do you have enough enclosures to keep them in separately at the moment?
Did you keep all of them together, so one enclosure with 7 males and one with 4 females? In that case, it was bound to fail. Larger groups of gerbils are difficult.
Do you have good sources of information? With this forum, you've come to a good place. I recommend to look around here, there are lots of useful tips (e.g. in the thread "Signs to look for during introductions"). You can also get help with determining the sex of your pup. If you can take a photo, we can have a look.
To be honest, I have a feeling that you got too many gerbils and not enough (or the right kind of) information. It's not guaranteed that you will be able to re-introduce all of them. Certainly not into larger groups, but some of them might not be able to be introduced again at all. For example, the one who has been bitten so badly might be permanently traumatised and not be able to live with another gerbil ever again (bases on my personal experience, others might have other experience).
It might be a good idea to try to find new homes for some of them. Would that be an option for you? If so, I want to mention that it might be a good idea to take some money for them. Gerbils for free are popular among people who want them as life food for reptiles. Someone who means well will always be willing to pay 10 Euros or Pounds for a gerbil.
Don't give up, we're all learning. Gerbils are not the easiest pets to have ...
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Post by Markpd on Apr 10, 2023 4:45:01 GMT -8
Yea I'm confused as to your cage arrangements too atm. I'm amazed that you've managed to have 7 boys living together for a year, that's impressive! (or lucky?) You mentioned that the boys are split 4,1,1,1, so I take it you mean the boys are in 4 different cages with one of them holding 4 males, the remaining 3 are separately housed? And the 4 girls are separately housed too (baring the one with a pup). If I'm right, then (for now) I'd leave the 4 males that are still together in an appropriately sized cage, assuming that they're still getting long ok. Just be aware that a clan of 4 is likely to declan at some point (but hopefully they're ok at the moment!). Don't try to intro the 4 to any other gerbils, it could simply end up destabilising the clan of 4. As for the remaining 3, odd numbers are tricky. You could split intro 2 of them to make a pair, but then what with the 3rd one? It's generally not recommended to try to intro a pair to a single, as the chances of failure are high, that's not to say it can't be done, but they really aren't good odds from what I've read. And even if it works, a clan of 3 is more likely to declan than a pair, especially if they're not related. You'd be better off removing 1 of the males from the clan of 4 and intro that one to the remaining male. The 4 females are more straightforward, try to split intro 2 separate pairs, as in 1+1 in one intro cage and 1+1 in another, not 2+2 in one intro cage. And keep your fingers crossed that all the intro's work! Just thought, one complicating factor is the pup, have you managed to sex the pup yet? Like icecontroller said, if you can post a (good) photo here then I'm sure some people here will be able to identify its sex.
Btw, how old is it? |
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Post by icecontroller2529 on Apr 10, 2023 6:53:49 GMT -8
Yea I'm confused as to your cage arrangements too atm. I'm amazed that you've managed to have 7 boys living together for a year, that's impressive! (or lucky?) You mentioned that the boys are split 4,1,1,1, so I take it you mean the boys are in 4 different cages with one of them holding 4 males, the remaining 3 are separately housed? And the 4 girls are separately housed too (baring the one with a pup). If I'm right, then (for now) I'd leave the 4 males that are still together in an appropriately sized cage, assuming that they're still getting long ok. Just be aware that a clan of 4 is likely to declan at some point (but hopefully they're ok at the moment!). Don't try to intro the 4 to any other gerbils, it could simply end up destabilising the clan of 4. As for the remaining 3, odd numbers are tricky. You could split intro 2 of them to make a pair, but then what with the 3rd one? It's generally not recommended to try to intro a pair to a single, as the chances of failure are high, that's not to say it can't be done, but they really aren't good odds from what I've read. And even if it works, a clan of 3 is more likely to declan than a pair, especially if they're not related. You'd be better off removing 1 of the males from the clan of 4 and intro that one to the remaining male. The 4 females are more straightforward, try to split intro 2 separate pairs, as in 1+1 in one intro cage and 1+1 in another, not 2+2 in one intro cage. And keep your fingers crossed that all the intro's work! Just thought, one complicating factor is the pup, have you managed to sex the pup yet? Like icecontroller said, if you can post a (good) photo here then I'm sure some people here will be able to identify its sex.
Btw, how old is it? Right, you're confused exactly like I am, and you're interpreting it exactly as I am. 4 boys together right now, 3 boys separately housed. And 4 separate girls with one having a pup (and one pregnant). So lots of cages, probably emergency cages like random boxes. This alone indicates that there is a certain urgentness. I agree that the 4 males are likely to declan and I agree you (buckthegerb) shouldn't try to intro the 4 to other gerbils. But then, you (Mark) suggested just that (if I got it right), removing one of the males from the clan of four and introducing that one to one of the single males. And here I disagree! Don't separate those 4 if they are doing well right now!! It will probably lead to the remaining 3 declanning as well! Those 4 should be kept together for now since they've got a functioning hierarchy at the moment. At some point, they will probabyl declan, and then you could try to re-introduce 2 and 2. In general, I think you (Buck) should accept the possibility of not all of your introduction attempts being successful. Can you give an update? How is your situation now? |
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Post by buckthegerb on Apr 10, 2023 8:57:42 GMT -8
I should have specified the boys more. I thought I only had 5 boys and they couldn't have been more peaceful. Then turns out, some of the boys balls were delayed so I was believing they were girls. Thus the pups. Buck is the leader and very aggressive towards the additions, so I will just have to try to pair the odd boys. The "girls" were together with 6 and the boys were 5. Buck kicked Patrick out. Then I found out Maddie and Martha were boys. So the boys got additional boys but are broken up. I have the 4 broken up girls but I can't do anything with them as I don't want to stress the momma's pup and the prego momma. Same as the recovering gerbil. Only 1 of my girls are fine. I am very attached to them but I will definitely have to sell the oncoming litter. I have talked to a friend about how to sell them above the food market. I have searched far and wide looking for information from many sources and comparing to see what's best for my gerbils. I guess that may have been wrong info as well. Pet stores are absolute garbage so their not worth a penny of help. I can assure you I am not using pet stores tips. I am trying my best. Thank you for your patience. Yes you understood the cage arrangements and it's best to leave the 4 alone, that's good. They are having small disagreements which I am afraid of will get to much. I had to take Patrick out because they were disagreeing too much with him. Since they are disagreeing I could take out the one being picked on and intro him so it's even like you said. The pup has it's eyes and ears open and has been running and jumping around. I am guessing 6-7 weeks now. He is eating solids. That was a week or two ago. So I think 6 weeks old. He is still very small compared to his mom. But that's normal. He needs time to grow. This is an urgent situation and I have used their bedding boxes (tanks) as their cages. Their cages are tanks btw. Thank you all again for your patience and quick replies to my situation. You don't know how happy I am at finding these solutions. I will have to buy more permanent suitable size tanks for the 1+1 intros if successful. Thank you again. I will keep you all updated! |
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Post by buckthegerb on Apr 10, 2023 9:01:07 GMT -8
To add to that, with the boys and their disagreeing, they are still all sleeping together. So I think they will be okay for longer.
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Post by icecontroller2529 on Apr 10, 2023 10:19:31 GMT -8
I should have specified the boys more. I thought I only had 5 boys and they couldn't have been more peaceful. Then turns out, some of the boys balls were delayed so I was believing they were girls. Thus the pups. Buck is the leader and very aggressive towards the additions, so I will just have to try to pair the odd boys. The "girls" were together with 6 and the boys were 5. Buck kicked Patrick out. Then I found out Maddie and Martha were boys. So the boys got additional boys but are broken up. I have the 4 broken up girls but I can't do anything with them as I don't want to stress the momma's pup and the prego momma. Same as the recovering gerbil. Only 1 of my girls are fine. I am very attached to them but I will definitely have to sell the oncoming litter. I have talked to a friend about how to sell them above the food market. I have searched far and wide looking for information from many sources and comparing to see what's best for my gerbils. I guess that may have been wrong info as well. Pet stores are absolute garbage so their not worth a penny of help. I can assure you I am not using pet stores tips. I am trying my best. Thank you for your patience. Yes you understood the cage arrangements and it's best to leave the 4 alone, that's good. They are having small disagreements which I am afraid of will get to much. I had to take Patrick out because they were disagreeing too much with him. Since they are disagreeing I could take out the one being picked on and intro him so it's even like you said. The pup has it's eyes and ears open and has been running and jumping around. I am guessing 6-7 weeks now. He is eating solids. That was a week or two ago. So I think 6 weeks old. He is still very small compared to his mom. But that's normal. He needs time to grow. This is an urgent situation and I have used their bedding boxes (tanks) as their cages. Their cages are tanks btw. Thank you all again for your patience and quick replies to my situation. You don't know how happy I am at finding these solutions. I will have to buy more permanent suitable size tanks for the 1+1 intros if successful. Thank you again. I will keep you all updated! I wasn't trying to say that you hadn't done any research. I'm just very much aware of the fact that there is not that much information about gerbils out there, and even a lot of misinformation. When I got my first gerbils two years ago, I felt well prepared after reading up on them on the internet, but I had to learn the hard way that the information I had gathered was misleading and downright wrong. I meant well and did it all wrong. I think that's how it goes for others, too. On this forum, I found that nobody blamed me for my mistakes, but people sincerely tried to help. I got precious information and gained a lot of insight. So yes, you will find people who will try to help you if you share your story here. Hope it all will work out well for you and your gerbils! |
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Post by buckthegerb on Apr 10, 2023 11:19:08 GMT -8
Sorry, I didn't mean to sound harsh. I did exactly as you did. I followed the internet and found that there was little gerbil information. And thank you again. I am happy that people understand.
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Post by Markpd on Apr 10, 2023 12:07:24 GMT -8
Good that you're getting on top of this  , sounds like a bit of a nightmare you've got atm! I hope it all works out, keep us posted. Yea I'm confused as to your cage arrangements too atm. I'm amazed that you've managed to have 7 boys living together for a year, that's impressive! (or lucky?) You mentioned that the boys are split 4,1,1,1, so I take it you mean the boys are in 4 different cages with one of them holding 4 males, the remaining 3 are separately housed? And the 4 girls are separately housed too (baring the one with a pup). If I'm right, then (for now) I'd leave the 4 males that are still together in an appropriately sized cage, assuming that they're still getting long ok. Just be aware that a clan of 4 is likely to declan at some point (but hopefully they're ok at the moment!). Don't try to intro the 4 to any other gerbils, it could simply end up destabilising the clan of 4. As for the remaining 3, odd numbers are tricky. You could split intro 2 of them to make a pair, but then what with the 3rd one? It's generally not recommended to try to intro a pair to a single, as the chances of failure are high, that's not to say it can't be done, but they really aren't good odds from what I've read. And even if it works, a clan of 3 is more likely to declan than a pair, especially if they're not related. You'd be better off removing 1 of the males from the clan of 4 and intro that one to the remaining male. The 4 females are more straightforward, try to split intro 2 separate pairs, as in 1+1 in one intro cage and 1+1 in another, not 2+2 in one intro cage. And keep your fingers crossed that all the intro's work! Just thought, one complicating factor is the pup, have you managed to sex the pup yet? Like icecontroller said, if you can post a (good) photo here then I'm sure some people here will be able to identify its sex.
Btw, how old is it? Right, you're confused exactly like I am, and you're interpreting it exactly as I am. 4 boys together right now, 3 boys separately housed. And 4 separate girls with one having a pup (and one pregnant). So lots of cages, probably emergency cages like random boxes. This alone indicates that there is a certain urgentness. I agree that the 4 males are likely to declan and I agree you (buckthegerb) shouldn't try to intro the 4 to other gerbils. But then, you (Mark) suggested just that (if I got it right), removing one of the males from the clan of four and introducing that one to one of the single males. And here I disagree! Don't separate those 4 if they are doing well right now!! It will probably lead to the remaining 3 declanning as well! Those 4 should be kept together for now since they've got a functioning hierarchy at the moment. At some point, they will probably declan, and then you could try to re-introduce 2 and 2. In general, I think you (Buck) should accept the possibility of not all of your introduction attempts being successful. Can you give an update? How is your situation now? Yea I was saying that the group of 4 shouldn't be intro'd to 1 or more gerbils as a group, and yes I said one could be removed from that group to pair with what would otherwise be a lone gerbil (a lone gerbil is not normally an ideal thing of course). That said, I didn't say/think about the possible consequences to the remaining 3 of the group, I should've added that the boss/dominant gerbil should not be the one removed from the 4, otherwise, like you said the remaining ones could declann. But, if a sub-ordinate gerbil is removed from the 4 group, that could actually increase the chance of the clan staying together for longer due simply to the clan being smaller. No guarantees of course! But you can't leave one of the single gerbils by himself in the long run (unless after trying intro's he turns out to be an unsocial gerbil).
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Post by buckthegerb on Apr 10, 2023 14:18:38 GMT -8
Okay that makes sense. I had no plan of removing Buck (the dominant boy). Thank you.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 11, 2023 0:46:53 GMT -8
I think for now, the best plan is to keep things as they are with the pregnant gerbil and the mum with her pup.
You could try to pair up some of your single same-sex gerbils, but as there is a history of declanning complicating things, a better plan may actually be to wait until the pregnant gerbil gives birth and the pups are about 6 weeks old, and introduce one pup to each single adult of the same sex (if you have enough). Pup introductions are easier and much quicker than adult introduction.
If the pup you already have turns out to be a girl, she can stay with her mum and they can be a pair. Don't try to introduce any more gerbils into that pair. Gerbils do best in pairs and gerbils should generally only be introduced one-to-one rather than trying to form larger groups. If the pup turns out to be a boy, you can try to introduce him to one of your single adult males. If he's a boy and 6-7 weeks already, I would try to do that in the next couple of weeks because from around 8 weeks of age there's the theoretical risk of him getting his mum pregnant.
With the 4 males you still have together, I'd suggest being really careful for the next few months to try to avert another declan. They're probably in a fragile state right now where they're figuring out a new hierarchy. I would avoid giving anything new in their tank for the moment or moving them a different enclosure. Also be very conservative with cleaning and always keep plenty of old bedding back. Never give them anything that has the scent of females on it, such as toys from another tank. They may still declan over the next few weeks or months but keeping things very stable for now may reduce the risk somewhat.
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Post by buckthegerb on Apr 11, 2023 8:57:48 GMT -8
That sounds perfect! Thank you all so much and I will try to keep everyone updated!
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Post by icecontroller2529 on May 5, 2023 10:35:48 GMT -8
It's been a while ... What happened to all your gerbils? Would you like to give an update?
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Post by Markpd on May 6, 2023 5:50:02 GMT -8
Yea, would be good to hear how things are going.
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Post by buckthegerb on Sept 9, 2023 11:49:36 GMT -8
It's been months now, sorry to ditch you all. You've been so good to me. I started a different thread on all the stuff that's ha ppened. It's called Gerbil Pups Got Out Of Hand. That has all the info. So I might actually delete this thread. Thank you all so much for sticking by!
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), late 70s
, sounds like a bit of a nightmare you've got atm!
