|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 1, 2023 0:25:26 GMT -8
Hi there, I just recently bought a new gerbil today from a pet store. Underneath, I can tell his personality is going to be very sweet once he settles down and understands no one is going to hurt him. The guy who got him from the tank for us, couldn't tell us much of anything about him. He said he didn't know his age (he looks adult, probably a year or eight months, but not old, obviously male, so I'm not worried about the actual information, simply how poor his environment was). The reason I chose him was because he was in what looked to be a three gallon, bare minimum supplies, and bored out of his mind. He wasn't sick, so I felt like I was still being responsible for my other gerbils in adopting him. When I asked to handle him, the man claimed "Gerbils don't like to be held, that's just how they are." I told him I was a breeder, so he allowed me to handle him in his little ceramic apple house. He was so terrified I understood why the guy might think that. Seeing everything this gerbil had been through, I saw it was pretty obvious he had never had a good experience with humans in his life. I felt even more for the little guy than I did before. I reached my finger over the edge slightly of the little apple house, and he pressed himself against the wall and started hyperventilating. Immediately, I knew I had to take him. He continued to do this for the whole day until I got him into his new home. It was really beautiful to see, you could practically feel his happiness beaming through his eyes as he chewed on his food and ran on his wheel, tunneling in his extra deep bedding! It was so beautiful to see and I already love him. I can actually hear him tunneling now after a nice long nap. He doesn't have a name yet, so if anyone has any ideas, I'm very curious to know what you think Anyway, I have an older aggressive male I'll be pairing him with, and I don't have much experience with this. Because it's my older male's pretty much last chance to have a buddy, he's been lonely and sad, and this boy is already on the edge of completely scarred and terrified, I understand it's a very fragile situation and I really don't want to mess it up. I've done this twice before, but the gerbil I was doing it with, I tried twice with him, was practically unpair-able and extremely aggressive to everyone around him, including me. Point is, I don't know much about split cage. If anyone can offer any advice to help me with this split cage thank you so much! These two are such a fragile pair, and I really want this one to work Thank you so much!
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 1, 2023 4:04:08 GMT -8
Hello,
It's so lovely you were able to give this gerbil a home and I am sure he will flourish now that he has a chance.
I'm curious to know the history behind your older male, especially his aggression? It might have a bearing on the split tank.
Personally, I would consider doing a slow and gradual split with this pair because one is aggressive and the other is possibly very nervous and may not have lived with another gerbil for a while. A slower split involves using a larger tank and giving both gerbils enrichment and deep bedding to begin with, also holding off on swapping sides for a while. This will also give the new gerbil more time to relax and just be a gerbil for a while before he has to go into a bare split tank. The idea is to gradually reduce the bedding and enrichment once the gerbils are acquainted with each other, building up to an attempted introduction. It can take several weeks or months.
Split tanks are stressful but not quite as difficult as they may seem. However one of the biggest mistakes I think people make is introducing too soon and I also think that is one way in which this introduction could potentially go badly wrong because we're dealing with two gerbils who for one reason or another may not socialise as easily as most.
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 1, 2023 11:52:01 GMT -8
Hi there,
Thank you so much for the quick reply!
My older male, I had in a clan of two other boys for a while, of which he was clearly the dominant of the three. He was always humping the others, and harassing them, which was the beginning of a nasty declan in which all three males fought. Thus, I separated them immediately and sold one, put the other (Onion, you may have heard of him on another thread) in a different tank, and after he had recovered, I introduced him to two younger boys. The older male, however, (Tunnely Joe) was left without another playmate until now. I tried to introduce him to another male at one point, but that didn't end very well, and he was clearly the one starting the fight. He is one of the most aggressive males I have had, but perhaps I've been lucky and that's not unusual? Okay, how big of a tank would you recommend? I'll definitely do the deep bedding, as well. I understand that in a split you give them only the bare necessities so they have to focus on each other. By enrichment do you mean giving them these things, such as a house and a wheel, or a sandbath and such, as well as the bare necessities? Kind of like, for them nothing changes, except that now there's a gerb on the other side of what was the end of their tank? Kind of a shot in the dark... apologies I probably got that wrong.
I will definitely be very patient with them and allow them to get to know each other very well before trying to do an introduction. That's part of why I'm so nervous about this introduction, since both of them may not socialize as normally, or easily as other gerbils would. Can I keep you updated on their progress?
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 1, 2023 12:09:24 GMT -8
There are various reasons why a gerbil might seem to be harassing the others in the clan so I wouldn't necessarily conclude that he's inherently aggressive. Most gerbils are able to find a friend through the split tank method but for some it can take much longer. In terms of tank size, 80-120cm would be a good size so that when it's divided, each gerbil has a decent space to live in. In the traditional split process which generally takes 2-4 weeks, the gerbils only have the bare essentials but on the forum we've recently been discussing a modified method where the gerbils start off in more or less a normal enclosure which is gradually scaled back to be more like a traditional split tank. So with this method, I would give them a wheel, enough bedding to burrow, tunnels, and a sand bath. I think the sand bath is important because before I even start swapping the gerbils between the sides, I like to swap their sand baths once a day to begin to get them used to the other's scent. I tend not to use houses but instead, platforms placed either side of the divider. I did use enclosed houses once and I felt it allowed the gerbils to hide away from each other too much, so now I always use platforms which are more open. You can also put their food, water and sand baths on the platforms to encourage them to spend time near each other. It's a good sign if they are happy to eat side-by-side. I'm currently doing a longish split on behalf of someone else and this is the tank I'm using: Aside from the benefits for some gerbils, I think the longer split tank can also be good for owners who are more nervous about the process as it all happens much more slowly and it allows more time to think, analyse the situation and ask for advice. Absolutely, please do keep us updated. I would love to hear how this works out.
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 2, 2023 20:34:13 GMT -8
Hi there!
Thank you for the quick reply, again, and sorry for my late one! I do currently have room for a larger tank so I'll get that for them right away. ' I can see why platforms are probably better for the split than houses, as it would close them off. How did you get those particular plat forms? I'm curious because I don't have any myself and haven't found anything like them.
Thank you so much for this! I don't have the tank yet, but when I do I'll give the first update.
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 3, 2023 2:29:43 GMT -8
Hi there! Thank you for the quick reply, again, and sorry for my late one! I do currently have room for a larger tank so I'll get that for them right away. ' I can see why platforms are probably better for the split than houses, as it would close them off. How did you get those particular plat forms? I'm curious because I don't have any myself and haven't found anything like them. Thank you so much for this! I don't have the tank yet, but when I do I'll give the first update. Those platforms are Ikea Variera kitchen cupboard shelves. With a larger tank, you'll need to make two dividers so that as the split tank progresses, you can gradually reduce the amount of space available to the gerbils. They start off with the half the tank each and by the end should be down to a space of around 30x30cm each. Like this:
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 3, 2023 10:51:08 GMT -8
I see. Okay, thank you so much! I'll see if I can get the platforms right away. I'm also receiving two more gerbils soon. I wouldn't be doing this now, since I already have the other two to think about, but it's a rare opportunity to get these two gerbils. Anyway, we'll also need to be doing a split tank with them, since they're two males that haven't seen each other in a while. They will be coming with two tanks, one of them being a split, so I won't need to put that together myself but I will be doing two split tanks at about the same time! I don't know why it was important to mention that, in fact, I'm sure it wasn't, I just thought it was funny
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 8, 2023 23:13:59 GMT -8
Hello there!
Update! I have just put them in their split. Unfortunately, I wasn't able to get a larger tank than a 20 gal, due to money and space, but they seem to be happy with it. They each have a wheel and a very open house. I've positioned their houses next to the divider so if they sleep there or hang out there it has to be together, which they've been doing and they also seem OK with. Of course, I'm fairly positive my older male will be the dominant one so I don't think there'll be much of a tussle in that area which is a little relieving (of course not counting my chickens before they've hatched). I've seen a lot of very interested sniffing. They seem to lower their heads right next to the divider and poke their noses through the wire to smell each other. Their ears are pointed forwards, there's no fluffing of fur or attempts at biting or anything like that, though I've seen my older male climb the divider and try to get to the other side. Of course, I've ensured that it's tall enough so there's no way they would be able to actually reach each other. The younger one, Frank, is constantly running on his wheel when he's not in his house eating or at the wire investigating. Naturally, I assume he's stressed and out of his element, but he already seems to be settling down. They've both already relaxed a bit in their houses (which as I said are right next to each other, a lot how you have the platforms ((I would have gotten the platforms but wasn't able to in time)). Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think it's a good start. I'm feeling good about this first meeting, and am a bit encouraged. I want to wait a good long while before I introduce them without the divider and while I'm excited, I'm also dreading the meeting. If everything goes smoothly, how long would you recommend I wait before introducing them?
Anyway, thanks for all the advice you've given me. I'll keep you updated on their progress.
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 9, 2023 10:10:11 GMT -8
Oof... another update, not so good.
So, sometime during the night last night, of course it had to be while we were sleeping... Frank got into my older male's side of the split. Both of them are alive, which I'm grateful for, but I woke up in the morning to find Frank huddled in a corner, and my older male with some sizable cuts on him. I've investigated the split, and there are no holes or dugout spots, it's like Frank teleported! My only hunch is maybe he climbed to the top of the barrier and jumped down into the other side, but I made sure the barrier was touching the lid! Frank appears to be fine for the most part, he has a minor injury on his side, but it's not very bad. My older male has a pretty sizeable cut on his nose, which has caused the whole top of his face to become red. He also has a cut on his chest, and one on his shoulder, but I checked these and they're not as bad though they did spill some blood. But now for the even stranger part. I've noticed that they're actually getting along quite well now. The interactions are brief, but there's no sign of fighting or aggression. They're sleeping right now (very close to each other) at one point my older male was sitting on the wheel, and Frank climbed up into the wheel to run. Tunnely Joe (my older male) got off. There seemed to be no aggression. But I suppose the strangest instance is when Tunnely Joe came up to Frank, and Frank started sniffing his nose and even cleaning it.
I've got the strangest situation where they seem to be quite fine together, and I don't know if I should leave them together, and let them do what they like. I wonder if they've fought out boundaries and differences?
Any help would be welcome, I just don't know what to do from this point.
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 9, 2023 13:26:35 GMT -8
Oh no, sorry to hear that!
What size mesh did you use for the divider?
While it is possible they've come to some kind of peaceful agreement, personally I wouldn't feel safe leaving them together and would separate them and do the split tank as planned. Sometimes after a big fight there can be a lull where everything seems okay (the calm after the storm) until then tensions start building up again.
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 9, 2023 14:36:01 GMT -8
Hi there!
Thank you for such a quick response! We figured out how he got over. The lid of the tank was slightly ajar when I first saw them. In the beginning, seeing everything else I barely noticed it and took the lid off anyways to check them. We think he climbed to the top and was able to push the lid up (it's pretty light) therefore creating enough room for him to wiggle through and get to the other side.
Okay, I generally didn't know what to do because I saw them pretty peaceful, but I will definitely separate them if you think that's best. I don't have much experience with split cages, so pretty much anyone here will know more than I do! Lol. We're also going to put a book or something on top of the lid so the weight won't allow him to get over again. Would you recommend I go about anything in the split differently now that they've already fought?
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 9, 2023 14:55:46 GMT -8
I would probably give them about a week for their wounds to heal before starting to swap sides.
In terms of a time frame for the split, it's really difficult to say. I would suggest waiting until they seem really relaxed, including after swaps, and then starting to reduce their bedding and enrichment in preparation for the more intense phase of the split. Then you want about 1-2 weeks of "full split" - this means no enrichment, shallow bedding, 3 swaps per day - before considering an introduction.
You ideally want them to be at a point where when you swap sides, they don't sniff around exploring and definitely not scent marking. They should just carry on whatever they were doing before. So if they were asleep before you swapped, it's great if they just settle down straight away in the other gerbil's nest without scent marking it or rearranging it.
You also want them to be at a point where they may briefly greet each other at the mesh by touching noses but there isn't an excessive amount of sniffing and investigating. Prolonged sniffing means gerbils are asking lots of questions about each other. That's all very normal in the beginning but by the end of a split you want them to be quite well acquainted with each other so they don't need to be asking all those questions. They would ideally be happy to eat side-by-side if you scatter their food near the mesh, though some gerbils will always want to run to a corner to eat, especially if it's a high value food, and that shouldn't be a deal-breaker if everything else looks good.
With adult gerbils, it's definitely better to wait longer than needed than to introduce too soon and personally I like to wait until I think they're ready, and then wait another week or so to be extra sure.
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 9, 2023 15:04:05 GMT -8
Okay, thank you so much! I'll definitely do that. I was very sure that I wanted to wait longer than a felt I needed to before introducing them, but I wasn't sure if that would have problems, so thank you again. I do already put the food next to the barrier, and that I've seen they always run into the corner to eat. I'll do it now, they still haven't fought but I have noticed that Frank chose the house as his territory, and has claimed it, so I think sooner is better than later, I'll go do that now.
|
|
|
Post by TJ's Rodent Ranch on Jul 16, 2023 15:01:51 GMT -8
Hello again!
Another update. So, Frank managed to get to the other side again! I had reconstructed the split tank, making it stronger than ever. I put a bunch of books on top, to the point where it got tricky for me to lift it. I was sure it was going to work this time! Anyways, later on, after I checked them and made sure everyone was okay, I figured out (after some investigation) that he dug to the bottom and pulled the wire towards himself, slanting it towards the other side of the tank, and making it wide enough to wiggle through. He then climbed to the top and jumped to the other side! I'm dealing with a very smart gerbil. This happened only a day three days ago. When I came up to them, they were sleeping together. I checked them both over and realized that they hadn't fought. I decided, after a lot of thinking, that I would leave them together on a temporary basis. I've been watching them 24/7 and they seem to be getting along very well. They've been together since then, and haven't had any problems. Frank, besides what I originally thought, is definitely the boss. I know it was really risky but they seemed perfectly fine together and actually very happy. They've been together three days now, and I've seen them sleep together, clean each other, eat next to each other and share their food, even.
I'm going to leave them together for a little while, and I'll separate them right away if I see any problems.
|
|
|
Post by LilyandDaisy on Jul 17, 2023 12:34:02 GMT -8
He was obviously very determined! If they've been together for a few days now without any issues you can probably consider them bonded.
|
|