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Post by betty on Apr 2, 2024 11:24:04 GMT -8
No I didn't get her surgery - I used to wait in those days until it got worse (on advice of most vets at the time) - especially if they were older (where I would organise a PTS instead).
SGT treatment is very personal to each owner though - so I would never disagree with leaving one a bit longer - or push people to go for an early one. They grow at such different rates, and some hardly seem to irritate their owner at all - and others are red-raw. However, once they are large, oozing, bleeding, scabbed over or super itchy - then it is a welfare concern and something must be done. From experience - metacam-type drugs can help reduce the irritation but have no effect whatsoever on the tumors growth.
However, personally, after I left that one pimple tumour on my lovely Latte at 3 years old thinking he was already poorly, but it grew so slow that he lived into his 4s before it suddenly got worse and then no vets could do it. I still wonder how long he could have lived if I had just done it early on when he was able to be safely operated on.
I also lost another male very quickly to a hideously infected SGT with hardly any pimple showing - and so I changed to arranging ops as soon as I saw them wart up. Full SG - not part.
SGTs are mean....
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 2, 2024 11:29:25 GMT -8
However, personally, after I left that one pimple tumour on my lovely Latte at 3 years old thinking he was already poorly, but it grew so slow that he lived into his 4s before it suddenly got worse and then no vets could do it. I still wonder how long he could have lived if I had just done it early on when he was able to be safely operated on. This is my concern. That if I wait while she's young and fit, it might suddenly start causing issues when she's older and not such a good candidate for surgery. I'm having to check the growth every day, and due to its position to the side of the gland, this isn't easy to do, and Twiglet absolutely hates being held upside for this daily check. I think I'm leaning towards getting it removed now but I hope my vet would understand my reasoning and agree to it.
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Post by betty on Apr 2, 2024 11:40:08 GMT -8
It does seem strange that it is to the side rather than actually on the SG itself. I would certainly be interested to hear what the vet thinks of it and whether they recommend a scan first (to rule out ovarian cysts/some-sort-of-metra) before surgery.
Tumors/growths in general rarely ever stay their original size when found - and I always assume that that tumor or growth is their own personal countdown - that is why I always remove them once I am unhappy with their growth.
I have had a few examples of non-SGT growths in gerbils/jirds which maxed out at a certain size for seemingly ages - usually around the head though - which although were the ultimate reason for PTS, didn't drastically reduce their lifespan - although certainly impacted their quality of life I am sure. Operations around the head/jaw are all but impossible at most vets - although sedation and tinkering/reduction/x-ray is possible.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 2, 2024 11:42:10 GMT -8
It is on the gland, just on the part under the skin rather on the part that is visible through the slit in the belly, if that makes sense. The only real significance of that is that I have to part the gland slightly to look at it, which isn't very fun for either of us.
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 9, 2024 9:13:24 GMT -8
Astra's almost back on a normal diet now. She's eating Science Selective with the grains from their normal food, plus a few oily seeds. She's also getting fresh food and malt paste in moderation. Her poos have been completely normal for a couple of weeks now.
She's also gained a few grams and feels and looks noticeably chubbier. I was never really worried about her weight before. She was always a skinny thing which seemed normal for her, but I like the chubbier and squishier Astra! Even her face is different. She's got fat in her cheeks and looks adorable.
It could be a coincidence that she's gained weight, but it's also possible that the different diet suits her better. Compared to my homemade gerbil mix, it has less calories from fat and more from carbohydrates. I remember that time Astra had diarrhoea after eating half a peanut which makes me wonder if a high fat diet doesn't sit well with her. In the past I used to give her lots of nuts and malt paste to help her gain weight but it never made any difference. So I'm going to keep her on the new diet for a while and see if she continues to fill out.
I do have another motive for encouraging Astra to gain weight. I worry about her small size in relation to her new friend Luna. Luna looks set to be an average sized gerbil, perhaps with a fairly chunky build, and I've always been worried that if she grows to be bigger than Astra it might cause issues between them. So all the more reason to keep her on the new diet if it might be encouraging weight gain.
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Post by betty on Apr 11, 2024 10:20:21 GMT -8
Interesating thought indeed about the weight gain on carbs instead of fat. I wonder if there is anything extra in that to take forward?
I did read in a paper once that gerbils digested more of their food when they were much colder, rather random at the time - but I suppose biology still has ways that we are unaware of...
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Post by LilyandDaisy on Apr 12, 2024 11:27:18 GMT -8
Interesating thought indeed about the weight gain on carbs instead of fat. I wonder if there is anything extra in that to take forward? I did read in a paper once that gerbils digested more of their food when they were much colder, rather random at the time - but I suppose biology still has ways that we are unaware of... This reminds of something I read about once, that people who are anaemic are more likely to get pink urine (beeturia) after eating beetroot, because in response to the anaemia their guts absorbs more nutrients from their food and that can include pigments from beetroot. I also wonder if weight gain in gerbils can be related to social changes, because I once had a gerbil who went from small and skinny as a pup living with an older gerbil, to a huge hulk of a gerbil once the older gerbil died and she became the dominant gerbil in a new clan. In her case she was 5/6 months old when this change happened so it could easily have just been natural maturing. But Astra has also recently gone from being the subordinate gerbil (albeit discontent one) in her previous clan to the dominant gerbil in a clan where the other member might outgrow her, so I do wonder if gerbils are capable of gaining weight in response to such changes? I don't think it would be due to them intentionally eating more food as a conscious attempt to gain weight, but perhaps more on a hormonal level?
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Post by betty on Apr 14, 2024 7:57:51 GMT -8
I do think that there is some truth to the bulking up when dominant in most standard gerbils. I have seen it too in many split intros.
I have however had a few smaller gerbils (I was breeding a smaller line) and none of these gerbils ever bulked up with changing status. They just stayed super tiny whatever happened.
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