Twiglet's scent gland surgery

[LilyandDaisy]

As I mentioned in another thread, my female gerbil Twiglet developed a growth on her scent gland which I presume to be a tumour. I took her to a vet (who is a rodent specialist but not specifically gerbils) today and they've booked her in for scent gland removal surgery on the 29th April. The vet's preference was to wait and see and try anti-inflammatories but I felt that surgery was the better option. She has still prescribed Loxicom (aka Metacam) to help with any inflammation until the surgery.

I'm unsure whether the presumed tumour has grown since it appeared, but it has become more red and today it was a little bit scabbed over like it had bled slightly since yesterday. Also, the daily checks are taking a toll on Twiglet. She absolutely hates being flipped over every day to have her belly poked. On Wednesday she finally bit me and drew blood which is what sealed the decision for me really. Aside from the medical aspects, I just don't think it's fair on her to keep manhandling her every day, but I also need to keep an eye on the tumour until it's removed. She also bit the vet when she examined her. Obviously the surgery isn't without risk and if it went wrong, I'd be devastated to lose Twiglet when she's fit and healthy otherwise, but the risk of leaving it seems greater.

None of my local vets are able to do surgery on a small rodent so I had to go to one a little further out - Andersons Vets in Bromley. Twiglet (and Peanut who accompanied her) have had a bit of an adventure today, as they've travelled on two buses and an Uber, and have been admired by several members of the public. There were lots of new sounds and smells - Twiglet found the sound of bus doors opening particularly intriguing!

The vets unfortunately don't want me to bring Peanut when Twiglet has her surgery. They have concerns about keeping both gerbils safe as Twiglet recovers. I felt I had to accept that really as I had already slightly lectured the vet about scent gland tumours in gerbils and didn't want to then lecture her about gerbil social structures. Twiglet will be dropped off at the vets between 8 and 8.30am on the day of the surgery and picked up that evening so I'm hoping that about 12 hours apart won't cause any issues.

[betty]

It is never easy with gerbils - and like you say - they often very much hate being held upside-down. I always use a giant jar to view them - especially easy with 2 people and a treat (I get them in the jar which is just tall enough for a stretch to the rim - then I hold the jar and my partner holds a treat just above their nose and they stretch up to grab it - but it is just a bit out of reach until I have had a good look at the tummy). Try and do the treat and tummy yourself - and you always lose one.

As for the surgery - that is a while away yet - especially if you think it is already getting worse. Let's hope the anti-inflammatories help considerably with that.

As for splitting them up for the day - depending on your thoughts - I would consider how young and dependent Peanut still is on Twiglet and hope that this meant for any easy re-mix afterwards. I would assume that Peanut would feel a little bit lost without Twiglet for those few hours and so would be glad of her return. There is also the option of making Peanut a bit more out of her comfort zone before Twiglets return (say, in a small quite bare enclosure) so that they are both 'returning' at the same time and share that moment as a team. Always difficult with a new couple, but I think you have her age to your advantage.

[LilyandDaisy]

I'm not that happy with the timing but it was the earliest they had availability for a non-urgent surgery unfortunately. However they've said if it gets worse they can do it sooner.

Unfortunately the position of it on the non-visible part of the gland requires me to pick her up and part the opening slightly to see it.

Peanut is quite dependent on Twiglet. Obviously the surgery is 3 weeks away so she'll be a bit older by then, but she seems dependent by temperament as well as just by age. If this were Astra and Luna, I'd be quite worried as Luna is more independent. But Peanut still acts a lot like a dependent pup and seems rather in awe of Twiglet.

I had the same idea of not letting Peanut get too comfortable while Twiglet is away. I certainly don't want her to spend the whole day alone in their enclosure and maybe getting ideas! She'll probably spend the day in a small cage or carrier with not a lot to do. It feels a bit mean, but it's only the same as if she'd gone to the vets with Twiglet. And then once reunited they will move into a small recovery tank together, so there will be no situation in which Twiglet is returning to an enclosure in which Peanut has spent the last 12 hours having fun on her own.

[tanzanyte]

Poor Twiglet.
I think I'd still try calling the vets and explaining the issue of gerbils being apart for that length of time and asking if they would take them both in. I'm surprised that with them being a rodent specialist that they don't accept it as a matter of course. My stepdaughter always takes her rats in for ops in pairs and she's had lots of rats and lots of ops so its not just gerbils that require company and rats don't have the same declining and bonding issues that gerbils do.

Failing that is there another exotic vets that will take them both and be able to get you in sooner? Coastway took Pepsi and Max when they each had their SGT removed and there was no issue with recovery.

Do you mind me asking how much it's costing? I'm intrigued as I know the price doubled in the 2 months between Mark's gerbil going for his surgery and Max going in as I paid over £350. Then 2 months later when I took Pepsi in it had gone up again and was just under £400. Don't worry if you'd rather not say.

Also we found malt paste on the side of the glass/perspex tank somewhere they have to stand up to reach was great for tumour/wound checks to save handling.

[LilyandDaisy]

Apr 7, 2024 12:17:31 GMT -8 tanzanyte said:

Poor Twiglet.
I think I'd still try calling the vets and explaining the issue of gerbils being apart for that length of time and asking if they would take them both in. I'm surprised that with them being a rodent specialist that they don't accept it as a matter of course. My stepdaughter always takes her rats in for ops in pairs and she's had lots of rats and lots of ops so its not just gerbils that require company and rats don't have the same declining and bonding issues that gerbils do.

Failing that is there another exotic vets that will take them both and be able to get you in sooner? Coastway took Pepsi and Max when they each had their SGT removed and there was no issue with recovery.

Do you mind me asking how much it's costing? I'm intrigued as I know the price doubled in the 2 months between Mark's gerbil going for his surgery and Max going in as I paid over £350. Then 2 months later when I took Pepsi in it had gone up again and was just under £400. Don't worry if you'd rather not say.

Also we found malt paste on the side of the glass/perspex tank somewhere they have to stand up to reach was great for tumour/wound checks to save handling.

The vet is particularly experienced with rats so maybe that why she recommended not bringing a friend, as I don't think rats fall out so easily.

In terms of other exotic vets, the other options would be:
- RVC Beaumont Sainsbury in Camden.
- CJ Hall in East Sheen
- Pennard Vets in Sevenoaks - annoyingly one of my very local surgeries used to have an exotic vet who was popular with rodent owners, but he moved away to Pennard Vets.
- I also looked at Coastway Vets.

I chose Andersons as one of the easiest to get to, particularly since I don't drive, and trains seem unreliable these days with strikes etc, and because they were specifically recommended to me by a rat owner. I'm inclined to want to give them a chance even though I don't think they have as much experience with gerbils as with rats/guinea pigs, because being easier to get to than other exotic vets (as well as being reasonably priced), I am hoping to make them one of the main vets I use. But I could try contacting them as you say, and maybe offering the option of bringing a second carrier for Peanut. I think they want to keep Twiglet in the carrier as much as possible after the surgery for her safety, and I understand they might not want Peanut running around immediately afterwards when Twiglet still needs active looking after. But I think they are also concerned about Peanut interfering with the wound.

I've been quoted £145 for the surgery. There's also optional histology for about another £220 which I initially said no to, but now am toying with the idea of (out of curiosity really). I assume that wasn't included when Max and Pepsi had surgery?

[tanzanyte]

Wow that is cheap!
Our boys both had their SGT removed at Coastways so I know they will allow you to keep them together. They also allowed me to drop them off the previous evening as I couldn't get there for that time in the morning. They were very good and I was happy with the experience and care offered. It didn't include histology though, despite the price. I could have paid extra for it but I wasn't fussed as it wouldn't change any future treatment plan for me. I did however find another exotic vets even more expensive than Coastway.
Mark's vet had doubled the price as I contacted them because I'd have happy traveled to save that amount of money, but by that point they'd obviously found out what the going rate was.

To be fair both of our boys gave the other a wide berth following surgery. Poor Max just kept circling round and round and was not with it at all. I was quite concerned for hm and spent a long time watching and waiting before it eventually wore off. Pepsi pretty much stayed out of his way.
Pepsi recovered from his surgery a lot better and although they were together, Max didn't fuss over him. Neither were incessantly grooming each others wound so it went really well on that front. I can understand the worry though as I've had poorly gerbils where the mate won't leave them alone. I had to remove Bubbles before I had her pts as Vanilla wouldn't leave her alone and kept trying to groom her where her tumour was and caused more distress.
Hattie stayed by Mymble's side on her last day before I had her pts, although she didn't bother her, she just lay next to her the entire time. That said I really don't think that it would make much difference for that short time they are at the vets as it won't stop them interfering with it when they are back together if the cagemate is that way inclined. It also doesn't stop them messing with it themselves. Oddly Max messed with his tumour before going in for surgery and thankfully left the wound alone once he'd had the procedure. I was surprised at the size of the incision but because they removed the entire gland it was almost the entire length of his tummy. I can add pictures if you're interested.

With Twiglet having recently been bonded with a little one I'd imagine it's easier to have8 or so hours apart. If it's a lot easier stick with your current vets. With the price they have offered I'm not sure it's worth trying to switch. I'd ask if they can get your gerbil in first on the surgery list so that you can get them back together sooner.

[LilyandDaisy]

Apr 12, 2024 15:04:02 GMT -8 tanzanyte said:

Wow that is cheap!
Our boys both had their SGT removed at Coastways so I know they will allow you to keep them together. They also allowed me to drop them off the previous evening as I couldn't get there for that time in the morning. They were very good and I was happy with the experience and care offered. It didn't include histology though, despite the price. I could have paid extra for it but I wasn't fussed as it wouldn't change any future treatment plan for me. I did however find another exotic vets even more expensive than Coastway.
Mark's vet had doubled the price as I contacted them because I'd have happy traveled to save that amount of money, but by that point they'd obviously found out what the going rate was.

To be fair both of our boys gave the other a wide berth following surgery. Poor Max just kept circling round and round and was not with it at all. I was quite concerned for hm and spent a long time watching and waiting before it eventually wore off. Pepsi pretty much stayed out of his way.
Pepsi recovered from his surgery a lot better and although they were together, Max didn't fuss over him. Neither were incessantly grooming each others wound so it went really well on that front. I can understand the worry though as I've had poorly gerbils where the mate won't leave them alone. I had to remove Bubbles before I had her pts as Vanilla wouldn't leave her alone and kept trying to groom her where her tumour was and caused more distress.
Hattie stayed by Mymble's side on her last day before I had her pts, although she didn't bother her, she just lay next to her the entire time. That said I really don't think that it would make much difference for that short time they are at the vets as it won't stop them interfering with it when they are back together if the cagemate is that way inclined. It also doesn't stop them messing with it themselves. Oddly Max messed with his tumour before going in for surgery and thankfully left the wound alone once he'd had the procedure. I was surprised at the size of the incision but because they removed the entire gland it was almost the entire length of his tummy. I can add pictures if you're interested.

With Twiglet having recently been bonded with a little one I'd imagine it's easier to have8 or so hours apart. If it's a lot easier stick with your current vets. With the price they have offered I'm not sure it's worth trying to switch. I'd ask if they can get your gerbil in first on the surgery list so that you can get them back together sooner.

In your experience, how long was it between the surgery and the gerbils being ready to go home?

I would be interested in pictures if you're willing to share.

[tanzanyte]

They both had their surgery in the morning and I received a phone call by 1pm for Max and collected him around 4pm and Pepsi I'd heard by 11.30am and collected him by about 4pm again. Although I think I could have collected them earlier, it was just trying to tie in the school runs. I had wanting them to stay a little longer as felt they'd have had better monitoring by them should anything go wrong. I know Betty mentioned that she has paid for her gerbils to stay in longer to receive the high level of care.
However they were fine at home and I just kept a careful watch. Both recovered fine.

I don't think I have any photo's of Pepsi as he wasn't happy being on his back long enough for us to take pictures. I've added a few to show the progression of healing. I may have exaggerated saying it was the entire length of his tummy. I remember being shocked at the time but from the pictures it doesn't look as long as I remember it being.

This was the day of the surgery 23/5/23


This was 1/6/23


6/6/23

[LilyandDaisy]

Apr 12, 2024 16:18:05 GMT -8 tanzanyte said:

They both had their surgery in the morning and I received a phone call by 1pm for Max and collected him around 4pm and Pepsi I'd heard by 11.30am and collected him by about 4pm again. Although I think I could have collected them earlier, it was just trying to tie in the school runs. I had wanting them to stay a little longer as felt they'd have had better monitoring by them should anything go wrong. I know Betty mentioned that she has paid for her gerbils to stay in longer to receive the high level of care.
However they were fine at home and I just kept a careful watch. Both recovered fine.

I don't think I have any photo's of Pepsi as he wasn't happy being on his back long enough for us to take pictures. I've added a few to show the progression of healing. I may have exaggerated saying it was the entire length of his tummy. I remember being shocked at the time but from the pictures it doesn't look as long as I remember it being.

This was the day of the surgery 23/5/23

This was 1/6/23

6/6/23

Thanks, this is all good to know.

Fortunately I will be available to pick Twiglet up whenever she's ready on the day, but I see what you mean about wanting them to stay longer for monitoring.

Twiglet's scent gland tumour is still red but not any worse than it was when she saw the vet thankfully.

[betty]

Yes, for me it was more important for nothing to change so soon after the surgery - mainly the temperature.

Small animals (and even cats and dogs) are so sensitive to temperature after anaesthetic that travelling home just wasn't stable enough for what our vet calls 'gold service'. Yes of course travelling home sooner sometimes is the only option, or cheapest/easiest option - and most often all is well - but I know I would kick myself if anything went wrong.

There is a slim chance of other things happening after surgery too of course - and so the vets is again, the best place for those things too (like being in a hospital when you had an accident, etc). But then we all know I always act on the side of full caution, just for my own peace of mind.


Glad to hear her sore is no worse than before - that is all you can wish for really.

[tanzanyte]

Not long to go now. How is Twiglet doing? Hopefully the tumour hasn't gown any bigger and she's still leaving it alone.

I totally agree Betty. If I could have had them stay longer I would have done, but the cost was already too high and I'd had to borrow some of the money. It was helpful not picking them up quite so quickly, but I felt Max could have done with staying in longer. Plus it is such a worry when you are driving lengthy distances of an hour to get them to the specialist which then isn't something you can easily navigate in an emergency.

[LilyandDaisy]

Apr 22, 2024 14:20:47 GMT -8 tanzanyte said:

Not long to go now. How is Twiglet doing? Hopefully the tumour hasn't gown any bigger and she's still leaving it alone.

I totally agree Betty. If I could have had them stay longer I would have done, but the cost was already too high and I'd had to borrow some of the money. It was helpful not picking them up quite so quickly, but I felt Max could have done with staying in longer. Plus it is such a worry when you are driving lengthy distances of an hour to get them to the specialist which then isn't something you can easily navigate in an emergency.

She still seems to be leaving it alone, but it is starting to get sore so I'm glad the surgery is coming up soon (and glad I scheduled it when I did).

[betty]

We all have our fingers crossed for her!!!

[LilyandDaisy]

I'm a bit annoyed with Twiglet right now.

This evening Peanut came out and Twiglet didn't even after waiting a while. This does happen a lot with gerbils and usually you dig around a bit and then they pop their heads out completely okay. But once in a while, they're not okay, and ever since that happened to me with Tilly, I get a bit panicky when one gerbil doesn't come out.

I wheeled the cage away from the wall to look inside from all sides, still nothing. I started gently digging, still nothing. I removed Peanut from the enclosure and started more vigorous digging. I took literally every tunnel out of the enclosure, still nothing. I move all the bedding around and there was no movement, and even started taking the bedding out of the cage. At this point I was extremely worried. I had to stop digging for a bit because I felt sick at the prospect of what I might find and wasn't even feeling that well today anyway. So I sat by the tank feeling distraught for a few minutes, then I went back to careful digging, and who should finally appear but Twiglet. She seems fine and I've no idea where she was hiding all that time.

Twiglet is very, very good at being stealthy when she knows she's being searched for. She's fine with being picked up for everyday handling, but for things like vet visits where it's essential to get her out of the enclosure within a certain timeframe, I think she picks up on the urgency, because she tends to make herself invisible (almost literally!) Typically what I try to do is start getting her ready significantly in advance of when I need to leave, and try to act very normal and relaxed like it's just any other day and I just want to pick her up to handle. But it's very easy to slip up and give the game away. When she went to the vet the other week I made the mistake of putting Peanut in the carrier first. Once Twiglet realised Peanut was gone (and could hear her scrabbling around in the carrier), she vanished and I had to dig up the tank to find her.

I'm going to move them into the hospital cage tonight because it's easier to keep an eye on them there, and my heart can't take another scare like tonight (and their tank is turned upside now anyway). Also it will make it much easier to get her into her carrier on Monday.

[tanzanyte]

Oh bless you, not what you need right before stressful surgery. I always feel like my heart stops when I can't find them. It's, thankfully, only happened a couple of times to me but it was blind panic in the end. I even began trying to work out if we'd got a houdini on our hands.
I am like you though in that I've learnt to prep a lot earlier for the vets.

Is there any news yet?