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Post by crazycritter on Aug 13, 2004 8:33:47 GMT -8
oh, I don't reccomend breeding the two you are getting from the petstore. Chances are, they're siblings. Petstores usually get their gerbils from breeders that hand their whole litter over to the petstore. You would most likely be inbreeding.
Selling to the petstore is bad as well...You don't know who the pups are going to, whether they'll be bred, what they'll be kept in, whether they'd be purchased alone or not. It would be A LOT better to find the gerbils homes yourself. I don't think you should breed if you're not willing to take on that responsibility
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Post by sweetie on Aug 13, 2004 10:13:34 GMT -8
I have to agree with Crazy. If you do but the 2 at the pet store they most probably are from the same litter. You then would be basically inbreeding which is most likely sure to create sick pups etc. If you look under the breeding section, I think there are threads that discuss inbreeding and issues related to it. I had issues when I got mine from the shelter and they were boy & girl not same sex like I asked for. You could get one from that pet store and another from another pet store. Another area I have to agree with Crazy about is that Pet stores should be a LAST resort when you decide to breed. They are not very knowledgable about Gerbils. If they can't sex them how do they know how to take care of them or to explain proper care to people who buy them. I learned this the hard way after getting mine from the shelter and they could not sex them, suggested pine shavings and fresh food 1X a day. They were clueless and passing on incorrect information. They also were leaving me with the responsibility of more litters had I not known to have the sex checked again. If you are going to breed please make sure you are responsible for the pups welfare and placement. After all it is your responsibility as a breeder Also I live in the US and 10 gal tanks are $9.97. They are pretty cheap here. You could even add on to the 10 gal by getting another 10 gal and connecting them since the 20 gal are alot more expensive. J uses levels in her 10 gals. I have asked her to post a picture. Cost savings and space saving ideas help me out! Knight, You are right about the mess. You are right about the obstructed view also. My gerbils do play hard and have alot to chew so they really don't chew too much on the bars. Also it is labor intensive to break down and clean everything and set it back up after the once a week thorough cleaning. It does help that they use the circle as a potty and I just clean that our 3 or more times a week.
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Post by canadianknight on Aug 13, 2004 11:07:59 GMT -8
Ours didn't chew on the bars either... they had plenty of other things to destroy. But yeah, we got tired of the lack-of-view.. we wanted to SEE our little guys! Cleaning up the shavings that were kicked out of the cage every day got tiresome. That and the gerbs starting running low on bedding because they were kicking it all out! ;D Everyone is much happier. Of note: We recently broke up our gerbs into two aquariums. Our pups are now 5 1/2 weeks old, and poor mom looks like she is ready to pop again. We want to avoid more litters (after the next one), so Dad and the boys stay in the 25 gallon tank, and mom and the ONE and ONLY daughter (!) went into a 10. 10 gallon tanks are REALLY cheap, at least in this neck of the woods.
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Post by sweetie on Aug 13, 2004 11:47:39 GMT -8
Hey Knight,
Where did you get the 25 gal? How much did it cost? You are in Canada right? I have been looking in the classifieds to find cheap tanks but they all havethe hoods, lights, fish "stuff" and are more expensive then if I went to Wally World LOL and bought 2 - 10 gal. I would like to change but I just spent over 100$ US on the cages and the accessories.
How many litters did the mom have? Do you have pictures of the pups?
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Post by j on Aug 13, 2004 15:53:20 GMT -8
J, Did you see my set up in the thread "show me your set up". I have enough space and yes it was expensive!! I wish I had done my research before I bought it at the shelter. I did not know they where going to steak out territory. Thanks for the info. . Nope missed that thread. I did my research before I got mine..tha'ts why I decided on the 10 gallon. lol But I only had 2gerbs back then, so I some cheap stuff off Ebay and had it all connected. I hated it. The staking out territory is a common problem.. I had it. There are even a few posts on here where people mentioned fights, and come to find out they have tube cages.
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Post by j on Aug 13, 2004 15:58:46 GMT -8
I've decided what Imma do is get the habitrail temporarily, which is where they'll live until I get the 10 gallon tank set up. I've got to shop cheap cause my finances are very low and the prices in Nova Scotia tend to be stupidhigh...thank god for Wal-Mart I don't get it. You want to save money, yet you want to buy a $25 plastic way too small cage? Better option. You want a plastic cage and cheap? Go to walmart and go into the Home Storage section. Buy one of those plastic storage bins. You'll just have to punch holes in the cover that comes with it. They sell like 20gallon containers for less than $10. If you want to breed, fine. But selling to a petshop isn't the greatest idea. Either is imbreeding. It won't bother you knowing that some of those gerbils will be sold as snake food and others will go to not so great homes where they won't be taken care of? You and the petshop can't guarantee what those gerbils will be sold for. Better off breeding them for yourself, and putting ads everywhere..so you can make sure they'll go to good homes.
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Post by khelkhet on Aug 13, 2004 18:08:36 GMT -8
Er, here in Nova Scotia, $25 for a habitrail is a STEAL. To buy that same Habitrail from Whiskers or Skeeters (the two pet stores) is $60 bucks at Whiskers and $55 at Skeeters. When we went to Wal-Mart and saw the same thing for $25 bucks we were blown away. Even at Zekkers it's about $50. Also, I have already said I have two 10 gallons and that they'd be in the Habitrail until I get the tanks finished or find the lizard cover. it's like a steel screen that locks securely into place on top of the 10 gallon, to keep lizards in. It fits well enough to even keep crickets from escaping, I can't see the gerbils being able to.
As for the pet shops, sales, etc, we'll just have to agree to disagree there, at least at this point. Frankly, the only place to GET gerbils around here is the pet store. There are no breeders, just that back room that pet lovers dread to think about, where rats, hamsters and gerbils are bred according to consumer demand. How does the pet store know if I'm going to give them a good home? They don't,nor do they really care so long as they get their $8-$10 per rodent. However, this is similar to the discussions often held about pups, and why it -must- be more morally sound to spend $1500 to buy a dog from the /breeder/ instead of $200 to get it from a petstore...It's one of those arguements that goes, forever, round in a circle and achieves nothing except everyone believing that they are more right than everyone else, so it's not worth the hassel.
There are no rodent shows here. They're just pets. Don't get me wrong, I love all of my animals, and they are fed, clean and healthy. I'd never trade them for the world. But I also know, from experience that once someone considers themself an expert breeder, they forget things like how rodents interbreed with each other in nature for thousands of years without FUBARing their genetic makeup.
I am not trying to breed the best rodents in the world. I'm trying to get myself some pets to enjoy, well aware that chances are, with three gerbils I'll end up with babies or at least wanting some. I'm trying to gather the information I need to make sure that WHEN that time comes, I have a safe environment for them and am not feeding them something that will poison them.
I appreciate the responses I have gotten here, and what I have needed I have taken into my notebook. However, I do ask you to consider one thing: I would be much happier and healthier emotionally if I lived a 30 room mansion and could eat pizza with the works for every meal, and would probably weigh less and be in better shape if my diet were restricted to the best foods in the world...But like every caged animal, I adapted to live in a small house eating what I can afford, and getting my exersize by walking to the mailbox each day. I am happy and healthy without being a king. Please understand that while I may be new to keeping gerbils, I am not new to keeping pets altogether...
I want my pets to be healthy and happy, and I know I can make them that way without spending a fortune. I've done it for years with my dogs and cats, and have had my hamsters in the past. I may not know the ins and outs of gerbil-specific genetic inheritance, which is fine, if I didn't care to try to understand Gerbil specific color inheritance I wouldn't bother to go to that section eventually...But I do know my own level of intelligence, and believe that having already established a place to send any babies I may end up with is a good thing. It may not be the ideal home for them, but it's better than having them die. Ideally, I'd have enough space to keep them all. That isn't likely to happen, though, so I've made sure that if I end up with babies that I know I have a place to take them. However, I have learned my lesson, and will obediently leave the site if my difference of opinion continues to warrent nasty messages sent to my IM.
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Post by queenofthenile on Aug 14, 2004 5:20:19 GMT -8
First of all, I want to remind everyone that this should remain a friendly discussion. If you have a difference of opinion, state it, but make your best effort to not sound rude.
khelket, I *did* find one breeder in Nova Scotia if you are interested. They are based in Halifax but their webpage is no longer working so they may no longer breed. Anyway, here is her email address in case you are interested: SolarCerra@hfx.eastlink.ca
You could also call the petstores and see where they get their gerbils. If they get theirs from hobby breeders, at least you could choose gerbils from different litters.
Although gerbils are very resistant to inbreeding, I still don't think it is wise to use petstore gerbils from the same litter. They are sometimes inbred to an unnacceptable level. You may wind up with pups having genetic deformities such as kinked tails, no eyes, or club feet. You will have a *very* difficult time rehoming these little guys, and the petstore will probably not take them. I wouldn't want to take the risk.
If you do decide to buy from a petstore, buy each gerbil from a seperate store. That way, you increase your chances that your breeding pair isn't related.
What colour were the little gerbs you saw at the store? If at all possible, do not breed agouti, because they aren't as popular. You probably have some argente goldens (tan), blacks and lilacs (grey) available at petstores in Nova Scotia. It would be better if you bred those colours. In order to not breed for the agouti colour you should breed tan with tan/grey, black with black/grey, or grey with grey.
You also need a back-up plan if the stores no longer will buy from you. Sometimes they get overrun with pups or decide to breed their own.
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Post by khelkhet on Aug 14, 2004 5:47:41 GMT -8
The ones at Skeeters are almost all black, except one of them has a little white poof under his chin and another apparently has white toes...i didn't get a good look because I was trying to detach the black one from my earring, which he thought I was offering as a toy or something apparently.
At the other petstore, Whiskers, they had albinos, a black and a black and white one.
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Post by queenofthenile on Aug 14, 2004 6:21:39 GMT -8
Did the black and white look like this? Or did it just have a small amount of white? I would breed either something spotted or if you see an unusual colour crop up (ie: other than black). You could breed that black and white with another black gerbil. That would give you 1/2 black and 1/2 black and white.
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Post by khelkhet on Aug 14, 2004 6:47:12 GMT -8
Very much like that.
P.S. I just found the 20 gallon tank that I used to raise my rats in, but still no covers. ARGH!
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Post by queenofthenile on Aug 14, 2004 15:55:47 GMT -8
Its really easy to make your own covers. I used wood scraps (ie: width of hockey sticks) and just screwed them together. Then you can staple gun wiremesh (1/4-1/2 inch) to the top. Voila!
If you are still consider breeding, I would pick up that heavily mottled black gerbil you saw and breed it to a black gerbil that you found at a different pet store.
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Post by floppy on Aug 14, 2004 17:02:44 GMT -8
Frankly, the only place to GET gerbils around here is the pet store. There are no breeders, Why don't you become a breeder in your area? I'm sure there are plenty of places you could advertise your pups. How does the pet store know if I'm going to give them a good home? They don't,nor do they really care so long as they get their $8-$10 per rodent. This is the reason people are advising you against giving them to the pet shop in the first place. You have no idea where they'll end up or what for... But I also know, from experience that once someone considers themself an expert breeder, they forget things like how rodents interbreed with each other in nature for thousands of years without FUBARing their genetic makeup. I don't think any of us here would claim to be expert breeders. We may have kept and bred gerbils for a long time but we too are still learning! I have read on many sites about gerbils in the wild. They may live in a colony of 2 parents and 1-2 litters. The parents are the only ones to produce pups. All the others are sexually repressed. If a female was to have pups she would usually run to another burrow, mate with a male and then quickly leave! (otherwise they'd probably kill each other!) I am not trying to breed the best rodents in the world. I'm trying to get myself some pets to enjoy, well aware that chances are, with three gerbils I'll end up with babies or at least wanting some. I'm trying to gather the information I need to make sure that WHEN that time comes, I have a safe environment for them and am not feeding them something that will poison them. If you have 2 females with a male and one has pups, the other female will most likely kill the pups out of jealousy. Make sure you only have one male and one female living together. But I do know my own level of intelligence, and believe that having already established a place to send any babies I may end up with is a good thing. It may not be the ideal home for them, but it's better than having them die. We will probably all disagree with you on this one. Having a place (pet shop) to send them to is not a good thing. You do realise that giving them to a pet shop to be possible snake food is as bad as you "having them die". Some people feed them live. Please, if you decide to get the ones you've seen, don't breed them with each other, get other gerbils to pair them with. And please don't give them back to the pet shop. I hope you do stay on the forum, you can learn a lot from people here. Don't take anything we say as a personal attack against you (I don't know what kind of PM's you were getting). We are only concerned and want to help. Everyone here loves gerbils and what we are telling you is from years of experience on our part. I do hope you take our advice on board. Let us know!
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