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Post by woestrat on Oct 3, 2005 13:05:30 GMT -8
Hello everybody a while ago my 2 bushy tailed gerbils gave a litter with 1 female spotted bushy tailed gerbils, but she died. 3 month ago the gave a litter of 2 pups. 1 spotted male with a strange colour en a male also with a strange colour but a bit darker than his spotted brother. The spots are in the neck and on the back. the where visual 2 days after the pups where born. Here a few pictures 1 of a perfect coloured female bushy tailed gerbil  1 of a strange colour spotted  1 of strange colour with good colour.  I would like your thoughts about this colour. greets Iris Buikema www.gerbilconnection.com |
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Post by sandy on Oct 3, 2005 17:33:12 GMT -8
It looks like a dilution of some kind. I'm not sure if bushies have the same kind of coat colour genetics as gerbils, though, so it is hard to say.
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Post by ashgerbil on Oct 3, 2005 23:16:10 GMT -8
yes, i think it is dilute because that happens with other jirds doesn't it?  mind you, a bushy tailed jird isn't actually a jird is it? |
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Oct 5, 2005 3:40:58 GMT -8
Colour genetics in rodents are quite the same! So mutations that appear in Mongolian gerbils can also happen in other gerbils species. There are colour mutations in other species like the Fat-Tailed Gerbil, the Shaw's Jird, and the Sundervall's Jirds. It appears that in Japan and other places either a grey (g) or chinchilla (cch) mutation has appeared in fat-tailed gerbils. This fat-tailed gerbil is greyer in colour. But not everyone is sure that it is a colour mutation. It is also possible that these grey fat-tailed gerbils are from the Egyptian subspecies Pachyuromys duprasi natronensis. The juvenile coat of these gerbils is very grey but faded with age to a much more sandy colour. Some hybrids of the Egyptian and the Algerian subspecies have this grey coat as well, although it does lighten with age but is still greyish. Nothing else is known at this time. Most of the variations in coat colour are probably the result of modifying genes and are not mutations. For many years now Shaw's Jirds in the UK have often exhibited a small white spot on the forehead. More recently, a spot on the neck and a white tip to the tail have started to appear in some Jirds. In addition, the colour of Shaw's Jirds varies a lot in intensity. They can vary from orange to very dark with a lot of grey. But all these animals are clearly Agouti. This variation is likely to be due to modifying genes and not a major mutation. The first possible coat colour mutation in Sundevall's Jirds has cropped up. A Sundervall's Jird in England has developed a small spot on the head, just like that displayed by some Shaw's Jirds. About Bushy-tailed gerbils being Jirds or not: Bushy-Tailed Jirds (Sekeetamys calurus) come from Egypt and Arabia alongside the shores of the Red Sea. Although called Jirds Bushy-Tails are quite different in appearance to Jirds from the genus Meriones and indeed have a genus, Sekeetamys, all of their own. Iris about your stange colour!  Could it be just a variation, like with the Shaw's Jird, thus a light variety of Agouti? Or a grey or chinchilla mutation? I don't know. I would breed with them even if it is just a variation, because it is a fantastic colour! |
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Post by woestrat on Oct 5, 2005 5:56:39 GMT -8
Thanks Peter, as you know it is quite a discussion on my dutch gerbil forum.
We will know in a few month if de colour is a genetic mutation or not. There are also more strangs things about this "colour". the colour of the nails is lighter, de tail is nog black or dark brown but light yellow and gray and the wiskers are white & gray, not black & white.
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Post by ashgerbil on Oct 5, 2005 11:08:57 GMT -8
hang on, there has been a litter with spotted dilute bushies, i'm sure of it (on another forum) but i can't remeber who it was. they posted pics of the pups too...
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Post by woestrat on Oct 5, 2005 11:10:49 GMT -8
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Post by Guest on Oct 5, 2005 11:32:35 GMT -8
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Post by woestrat on Oct 5, 2005 12:22:05 GMT -8
that is laura
the mother of her diluted is a doughter of my couple where the 2 diluted males came from.
The diluted gerbils of laura all died.
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Oct 6, 2005 2:51:23 GMT -8
Yes Iris, I know about the discussion on your Dutch gerbil forum (for the non-Dutch people here: the biggest in the Dutch language). And one board on fat-tailed or duprasi gerbils (one of my favourite species) there is the biggest in the world! Never saw such an active board on duprasi before! So your light bushy-tailed gerbils look the same as those from Laura? Than it might thus be a dilute agouti!!!!! At least that is what Julian Barker thinks than. And Eddie agreed! Sad that they all died! Iris is this your first light or dilute one? I hope he will survive! It would be great to have a dilute (d) mutation in this species. ;D Keep us updated! |
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Post by ashgerbil on Oct 6, 2005 8:44:53 GMT -8
yes, gerbilcrazygirl was the person i was talking about! i'm sorry to hear that they died  hopefully yours will survive  |
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Post by woestrat on Oct 6, 2005 13:34:35 GMT -8
Yes these are the first. they are now 3,5 month old. There doing greet, accept that they are sneezing (is that english?, in Dutch it is "niezen") so i think they have the flu, They have a female now (introduced two days ago). So I hope that they will mate. I will not put them back on there mother. I prefer to breed them on 2 not related females and cross the puppys. So it will take about 2 months before there is a litter than 3 month until that litter kan produce puppys and 2 month before there litter wil have hopefully diluted puppys. If all goes well in 7 month we will know for sure ofcourse the parends of the two boys can have an other litter with a female of the same "strange" colour. Perhaps I will chose to have 1 litter brother x sister yust to look if the colour is realy a genetic mutation. Normal colour puppy can't be born than, yust the different colour puppys. Than we will know in 5-6 six month |
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Post by exopets on Oct 18, 2005 12:27:23 GMT -8
that is laura the mother of her diluted is a doughter of my couple where the 2 diluted males came from. The diluted gerbils of laura all died. NO NO!!!  They are not died!!! WE heve them! Laura (gerbilcrazygirl) had 1 diluted he is died! (he look almost blue, like a bue degu) We have her breeding pair how give her that collor. Also 2 youngsters thay are the same collor as the bushy of Iris(woestrat) ;D Exopets, Michan en Miranda www.exopets.web-log.nlKeepers & breeders of Exotic small mammals Houders & Kwekers van exotische kleinzoogdieren Animalier & Eleveurs amatuers de petits mammiferes exotiques |
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Post by Ritzie/Admin on Oct 20, 2005 1:19:53 GMT -8
Good to hear that! ;D
So all Bushy Tailed Gerbils with this colour can be traced back to the gerbils of Iris (Woestrat)!
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Post by exopets on Oct 20, 2005 10:25:24 GMT -8
No, not al. I sold a pair to a france friend, he breed with them, 5 baby's 2 are diluted... We don't have animals from Iris... al oure animals are from Vincent Wisse (Delft, NL) @ iris: do you have animals from Vincent Wisse? Exopets, Michan en Miranda www.exopets.web-log.nlKeepers & breeders of Exotic small mammals Houders & Kwekers van exotische kleinzoogdieren Animalier & Eleveurs amatuers de petits mammiferes exotiques |
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mind you, a bushy tailed jird isn't actually a jird is it?
Could it be just a variation, like with the Shaw's Jird, thus a light variety of Agouti? Or a grey or chinchilla mutation? I don't know. I would breed with them even if it is just a variation, because it is a fantastic colour! 
hopefully yours will survive 
