Split-cage and quarentine questions.

[MTPetey1]

I'll start off by saying I had tried to make an account but after several days it still hasn't been approved. If you need proof MTPetey is a real person, here it is (it said the name was already taken when I tried to post as a guest, hence the 1 at the end). Now to the point of the thread.

So, I've been doing a lot of reading on here for the past two weeks. I got my gerbil, a white, ruby-eyed, male named Dale, about a week ago. He was the last one at my local Petsmart and I decided to go ahead and get him, even though I've been reading all over that getting an already introduced pair of males was best. Right now he is in a 10 gallon aquarium with 3 inches of aspen bedding, a water bottle in a metal bottle holder, a little wooden house they had at Petsmart, a bunch of cardboard, and I got a 6.5" plastic silent-spinner wheel which I take in and out (silent is a lie lol). Also I have a store bought wire mesh lid on top. Since I got him I've been thinking about getting him a buddy, and I already knew split-cage was going to be the best option for introducing to lone gerbils. I was able to get a 30 gallon tall aquarium for only $15, because it had been left outside and needed a lot of cleaning, but other than a few scratches is in great shape physically. I cleaned it with dish soap to start, then bleach, and then to get rid of hard water stains I used a mix of water and vinegar. I made sure to rinse it very, very thoroughly each time (I'm a chemistry student so I know how important this step is, its very easy for residue to get left on the glass). I also got some 1/4" wire mesh for $5 from my cousin, who had some leftover from a project he had done. I then went out and bought some 1/4" aluminum channel. I used the channel and wire mesh to make a very snuggly fitting lid and what was supposed to be a slide out divider but its a little too snug to really slide well, which is probably better than it being loose. Don't need anyone getting through it before they're ready. Here is a picture of the final product, which only cost me $26 altogether:

So, my first question is, is this tank a fine size for a split tank for two male gerbils? Its dimensions are 36" long, 12" wide, and 18" tall (measured from the outside, including the black plastic). Based on what I've read, that's only 6" longer than a 20 gallon long, and about the same width. I've read about doing a split cage in a 10 gallon, but that seems so small for each, especially if it doesn't go well at first. I'd rather they have to split in this for 3 weeks, than split in a 10 gallon for more than 3-4 days. Also, I've been doing some reading and have seen some somewhat conflicting recommendations on what to put in the tank. Am I correct in thinking, 2" of bedding, some cardboard to chew on, a water bottle, and some food on each side, and that's it while doing the split? And then of course do plenty of cardboard, a wooden hut/house for them to nest in, 6 or more inches of bedding, toys, etc., etc. after they are introduced successfully.

The other question I have is about quarantining the new gerbil. So far Dale seems to be fit as a fiddle. He's really active in the evenings, and early mornings, he eats and drinks what seems like a fine amount, coat looks good, etc. I'd hate for another gerbil to get him sick, but I'd also like to go straight into doing the split cage. I heard the same Petsmart got some more gerbils in, and I trust buying from them because this particular Petsmart has a vets office inside of the store itself, and I've even seen one of the vets walking around checking on the rodents, reptiles, etc. they have in the store. So, what do you guys think is best? Could I maybe quarantine the new gerbil in the 10 gallon for a couple days and go ahead and place Dale in one side of the 30 gallon, or maybe other way around?

[MTPetey1]

So, I've done a bit more reading on quarantining, and what I've decided to do so far is, go ahead and get a second one from Petsmart, and keep him in one half of the split tank (since its split already) and keep both tanks in different areas, and wash make sure to wash my hand before and after handling each gerbil for at least the next 7 days. If there is any doubt in eithers health at that point, I'll wait another 1-2 weeks, maybe a little more. If anyone sees this as an issue, let me know.

[crittercrazy]

First off, totally normal you haven't been approved yet. Its just because the Ritzie (she approves) hasn't had much time to be on recently.
I know you said you didn't like this option. . . but the 10 gallon would be better. It may seem like not enough space for them, but in the end it will probably even out since they won't have to be in as long ideally. However males are generally easy to introduce so if you'd rather you can go ahead with the 30 gallon.
As far as what to put in the split, what you said sounds fine. Couple of inches of bedding, water bottle on each side, cardboard (and nesting material and a little hay is okay too) and I would suggest scatter feeding them so you can avoid the food dish.
Your plan to quarantine them is fine.
Well, feel free if you have any more questions and keep us updated on how the gerbil do/how the split goes!

[MTPetey1]

Alright. I understand how running a forum goes and I saw she trying to find qualified staff to help out.

As I said as far as floor space, its not that much bigger than a 20 gallon long, and I know a number of people split those, so I'd rather stick with trying it at least. The first gerbil I got they said had been there a while, but I didn't get an exact age considering his size and everything I've read online, I'd guesstimate that he's around 6 months old.

I went ahead and got another one from Petsmart. They had gotten in three, so I was happy I could get one and their still be a pair in there together. He's a little nutmeg, whom I decided to name Joel. The girl who was working their said she was pretty sure they were around 2 months old. He's definitely a lot smaller than Dale, and he still has an orange color to his fur. I hear one being younger makes it a LOT easier, which also makes me happy. I was also so surprised at how much the Petsmart employee new. I mentioned I was planning on introducing him to an older male and she warned that they might fight due to not knowing each others scents. I showed her the picture of the split cage and how I planned to introduce them and she mentioned to still be careful after removing the divider, and to wear gloves, etc. and that its sometimes hard to tell when a ball fight is about to start. I know I'm going on a lot about it but it actually surprises me when the people in pet retail stores actually know their stuff.

Anyways, I'll keep you guys informed.

[crittercrazy]

Haha, same here! When I went to get Parsley, after already getting her sister Pepper, the worker said something like: "Wouldn't you rather get two, since they are happier together?" When I responded that I actually had three more gerbil at home, he said, "Mmm, I don't think females are supposed to live in groups of four. They're really territorial." I was surprised he knew that much! Maybe I'm being too critical though.
Anyway though, congrats on now having two gerbils! Yes you are right that one being younger makes it easier, and my guess is that with two males at that age you should have an easy intro. So good luck!

[MTPetey1]

Just giving an update. Thursday I got impatient with waiting to put them together. I put them in the split Thursday afternoon. I went with switching them 3 times a day. They did fine. No signs of aggression at all from the start. Even first time switching them they willingly slept in the others nest. They did do some scent marking the first 2-3 times switching them. They kept meeting at the divider and sniffing each other every so often. Today after switching them in the morning I saw them go up to the divider and Dale looked like he was trying to groom Joel through the wire mesh but had trouble with it.

This afternoon when I went to switch them I had trouble getting Joel to sit still long enough to pick him up. I had been getting him in a exercise ball for a couple minutes while I got Dale on the other side, then putting him in, since Joel has only let me actually pick him up in my hand once. I was trying to get Joel to get in to the ball or let me pick him up but he wouldn't let me do either, so I (probably stupidly) decided it would not be too risky to let them in together, so I picked Dale up and sat him down on the side Joel was on.

They both seemed a bit nervous at first. To me it looked like Dale might be about to attack Joel, but instead he started grooming his face. After they'd been together a couple minutes, I put in a fresh toiler paper roll and they both got on each end of it and started chewing it up together. After that Joel kept seeming unsure about Dale, but Dale acted like them being together was perfectly normal. It took Joel a little bit to seem comfortable with Dale grooming more than just his face. It also looked a couple times like Dale was scent marking him. I haven't seen Joel groom Dale at all yet. As I type this, they are both in their nest sleeping together... never mind Dale literally just woke up LOL.

In hindsight, I probably rushed things, especially considering this is my first time doing this, but so far it looks like things may turn out okay in spite of it.

[johanne]

If they've been in the split tank for a week already there's a good chance they were ready to go together anyway. There is no set amount of time it takes. Anything from 3 seconds to 3 weeks is typical. So as long as they continue to get along don't worry. When a pair is together at first I always give them a narrow jar or tube of some sort to allow the younger one to feel more secure in case the older one shows any sign of aggression. Anything that forces them to rub their bodies against each other also helps with scent transfer. Sounds like you're doing a great job with your research and all is going well!

And a tip: any time you need to pick up a gerbil and they're not trained to get on your hand on their own, the easy way to do it is to use a glass or plastic jar. Any time you hold a jar in front of a jar they're likely to walk into it. If they start refusing with one container I just get another one. It makes for a stress free way to move gerbils.

[MTPetey1]

Thanks for the tip. When I couldn't get him to walk into the ball after several minutes (it had not taken more than 2-3 minutes before then) I felt like all I was doing was stressing all three of us out, and just trying them together came to mind first instead getting a different container. They had not been in there a week yet. Only 3 days. I had kept Joel on his own for the first 4 days to see how active he was and make sure he seemed healthy. I also thought a few days to get used to the sounds and smells of the house would make it less stressful than putting him straight into the split. I know for a proper quarantine 10-14 days is recommended, but I saw no signs of him being ill at all and didn't actually plan on doing a "proper" one anyways.

Unfortunately while I was typing this post they started jumping around and chasing each other. By the time I got to my gloves on they were rolling into the ball. Neither of them looks hurt. It absolutely did not look like playing but a ball fight starting, so back to the split for a few more days I guess.

[MTPetey1]

Just checking to see if this was a mistake or not. I had put in a cardboard tube that was big enough for Joel to get into, but seemed too tight for Dale. After a short while Dale started scent marking the outside of the tube while Joel was inside it. I was watching that happening while also typing the first part of the previous message. Joel seemed came out and acted like he was trying to get Dale to stop with then lead to them chasing each other around and jumping. I put the tube on the side Joel is on for now and Dale has been acting kind of frantic since. Was putting the tube in a mistake? Is Dale still in fight mode, upset about the tube, or could it be something else?

[MTPetey1]

After reading some more, I'm not even sure it was a real fight after all. Different sites list different things as being signs of a real fight and a play fight. Some say not to get concerned until blood is drawn, others say to separate as soon as they act how my two were acting. I'm not sure which to believe to be honest.

[crittercrazy]

Shouldn't be hard to tell a real fight from playing. Playing gerbils wrestle or "box", and if they do get in a ball, its loose and they get out of it pretty quick.
Fighting gerbils squeak, chase each other, and roll in a tight ball where its almost impossible to tell which is which. I've seen it happen and trust me, its easy to tell from playing!! Or even if they don't get in the ball, you'll still be able to tell if its fighting by whether or not they look stressed and scared. Thumping, wide eyes, jerky movement, "waggling" tail, all signs of fear that point to the fact they aren't getting along.
Unless you're relatively sure its just playing, I would suggest putting them in the split for a few more days. Three days isn't that long so maybe they just need some more time.
Good luck!!

[johanne]

I usually use tubes that both can fit into such that their bodies rub and distribute scent. Smaller tubes can keep a youngster safe but should not cause fighting. If there's going to be fighting it will happen regardless of tube or container sizes. Often a pair will appear to get along fine when you first put them together and end up fighting anyway. That just means they weren't in the split long enough.

[MTPetey1]

I didn't see or hear any thumping. Their movements did seem jerky. They weren't hard to get apart. It looked like Dale tried to bite my hand but at the same time, he didn't latch on like most sites say they do. I cant find any bite marks on the glove; they are decent quality leather gloves, so not sure if it actually means anything. Having never seen a real gerbil fight, I'm just really unsure. They may have just been wrestling and/or sorting out dominance issues.

Johanne, you mentioned putting a glass tube or jar in there with them. I don't think I have either, but what about a cup? One that is big enough for either to fit in (maybe even both at the same time), but not big enough for them to fight in. I have one in mind that is tall and somewhat thin.

[crittercrazy]

Here's some videos of a gerbil fight:
www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnEhQoBMrkE
www.youtube.com/watch?v=faZ00hjfYMA

I think a cup would work; or I used to use a coffee mug till I dropped it and it broke.

[MTPetey1]

It all went pretty quick. They were not in that tight of a ball, or bouncing around as much as that. They just chased each other, and jumped around. I quickly put my gloves on and by the time I went to reach in they were kind of rolling on top of each other. I reached in and they stopped for a second and looked at me, so I stopped as well. Then Joel ran at Dale and he jumped, then I reached in, scooped up Joel and Dale dived at my hand, I lifted Joel out then flattened out my hand and lowed him into the other side of the divider. Dale acted a little frantic afterwards. He kept switching between digging at the bottom of the divider and running around.

I switched them at the usual time this morning, except this time instead of completely removing one while I moved the other. I put Joel on the side Dale was on, watched them for a minute, then moved Dale over to the side Joel had been on. During that minute or so, they just ignored each other, Joel got into the nest Dale had been in, then I picked up Dale and put him on the other side. At that point Dale looked at the divider, almost like he was disappointed or something. Since then its been mostly the same as its been the past few days. They occasionally meet at the divider and sniff each other but otherwise go on about their business. I did notice about an hour ago Joel was chewing a piece of cardboard while he had his side up against the divider and Dale walked over to the divider and sat down while kind of pushing his body against it. A minute or 2 later Joel decided to get a drink of water and Dale watched him for a moment and then moved back into his nest. Does that mean anything or just random? I think maybe tomorrow or the day after I might try having them together again (unless you guys think it is too soon) but this time remove the divider, mix the bedding from both sides, and put in the cup and see what happens. With more space to get away from each other if they need to, it might go a little smoother I think.