myth
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Posts: 36 
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Post by myth on Mar 10, 2015 17:54:04 GMT -8
Hello, My female Just had her first litter of 6 on 03/03/15 and she has been doing really well, her and the father are taking great care of the babies, but I am concerned because I just checked all the pups, and there are 2 that are smaller then the rest, one that is very small compared to the rest, this is a picture of the smallest compared to a normal baby..  when I handled them, I noticed their rib cages did not feel right, especially compared to their siblings. I am concerned they might have flat rib cages like many people see in kittens, known as flat chested kitten syndrome. there is also a slight clicking noise when the smallest one breaths and I know that can be a sign of respiratory issues. Any suggestions on something I can do to help these guys? Also do you think it being my females first littler, that it contributed to this problem or should I no longer breed the pair due to this? |
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Post by Shooting Star on Mar 10, 2015 18:21:22 GMT -8
Well it's definitely a runt. I've had some incidents of pups with misshapen rib cages. (Don't have pictures handy right now, will have to dig some up.) It doesn't happen often, and there doesn't seem to be any pattern to when and where it shows up. My best guess is that it has something to do with conditions in the womb during development. All the pups I've seen with the "swimmer" look have died, usually before 3 weeks though a couple did live to 4 or 5 weeks.
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Post by daisy on Mar 10, 2015 18:52:25 GMT -8
Maybe the two little guys are getting enough of mom's milk? Are they nursing enough? Is it possible to supplement their feedings as you would for an orphaned gerbil? |
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Post by betty on Mar 11, 2015 2:48:52 GMT -8
I have a real tinker too at the moment, although I haven't felt its ribs enough to say whether they are flattened. Here is an image from just over 3 weeks old next to a male sibling:  I did have a real tinker from this mother's mother too, so I was wondering if it was genetically relevant or just a coincidence? The older one did catch up in size with the others and was homed successfully with the second litter pups (as by then they looked the same size). Still doing fine at 8 months as far as I was told - so fingers crossed for our 2 tinies then... |
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myth
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Posts: 36
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Post by myth on Mar 11, 2015 12:32:36 GMT -8
Thanks for all the replies guys, I was feeling like a horrible person because my pair had this happen and I was feeling guilty that I might not have done something right or that I was wrong to have paired the gerbils I did for this litter. so thanks for your support, it has helped just knowing I'm not the only one.
I hope the little ones make it as well Betty! the little ones make their way into your heart no matter how much you try to distance your self from them. Though I have a feeling that my smallest runt might pass away due to how deformed its rib cage is, but I guess it wouldn't hurt to try and give them the best chance they can get by supplementing them with some kitten formula. Do you guys have any suggestions on what type of formula is best to get for them?
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Post by Shooting Star on Mar 11, 2015 16:40:41 GMT -8
Goat's Milk Esbilac is the best readily-available formula.
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Post by Shooting Star on Mar 12, 2015 2:49:50 GMT -8
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myth
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Posts: 36
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Post by myth on Mar 12, 2015 20:12:39 GMT -8
Thanks so much Shooting Star, that is exactly what my 2 runts rib cages look like, how they poke out on the sides like that, thanks for finding the pictures, this way it will be a thread that other breeders can look into if they find their runts have the same problem.
Last night I went out and got some formula for them, I tried giving them some last night and today but the larger healthier runt wanted nothing to do with it, he would push the syringe away and would spit out the formula, I made sure to keep it at a good temperature but I think he might have been full. he seems to be doing a lot better then the smallest one.
I tried to give the smallest one some formula and as I did I noticed it was a unhealthy purple color, it is very thin and is not putting on weight, it drank some of the formula but seemed to have trouble with breathing, today when I tried again I had to stop due to it acting like it was gasping for air with its mouth, it was making clicking noises as it did. I have made sure to only get it in their mouths and not in their nose, wiping away any extra that was not in their mouth with a Q-tip, but I am afraid the poor little one is not going to make it much longer.
I will keep you all updated as things progress.
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myth
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Posts: 36
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Post by myth on Mar 13, 2015 12:16:20 GMT -8
Update: The smallest runt ended up passing away today, I think its rib cage might have been to far deformed for it to be able to get the correct oxygen it needed as it grew. The bigger runt seems to be doing fine and is only slightly smaller then the others. I am hoping this one will continue to grow and become strong and healthy. I will keep you all updated and hopefully post some pictures of the little darlings latter on.
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Post by betty on Mar 16, 2015 3:20:44 GMT -8
My little one is doing just fine at just over 4 weeks now and acting totally normally with the others. I will be weighing them again at some point today to see if he is catching up with the others, and I will have a feel for the ribs. He doesn't look misshapen to the eye like these images on here, but I haven't had a good feel yet.
Hopefully your older Runt doesn't look that bad either? Is he still ok?
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Post by betty on Mar 16, 2015 9:37:54 GMT -8
Well we had the weigh in and he is now just 15% lighter than his siblings - looks like he has been filling out faster than the others. His ears are now out - but his eyes do look a little bit bulgier than the others - maybe as he is shiny white and they are all black.
His ribs and movement seem fine too. So hopefully after another week he would have caught up with everyone... His mum isn't showing any bump so far for her second litter - so he has another week at least of total mummy love.
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myth
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Posts: 36
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Post by myth on Mar 16, 2015 21:36:06 GMT -8
Update: sadly the other runt passed away today, I was hoping it was going to make it because it looked so much better then the other smaller runt, but in the end their rib cages were to deformed. the rest of the pups are looking good and healthy, though now I am paranoid that something will go wrong with them as well lol on a happier note, here is a link to a thread I posted with pictures of the healthy babies that are left. gerbilforum.proboards.com/thread/30583/noctis-mews-first-litter |
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