Steel gene in Gerbils

[Shanawaz]

Hi,

Does anyone have any information or findings about the Steel (Sl) gene?

Thank you

[Shooting Star]

That'd be me.
Here is the article I wrote in 2013, which has the basics right (mainly in how they look), but is sorely in need of revision. shootingstargerbils.com/steel1.html

I've had to go back to the drawing board several times in trying to figure out Steel. A few main points that differ from the original article:

1) Steel is not restricted to my lines. It actually seems to be all over the place, once you know what to look for. But if you're not looking closely, it's easy to miss.

2) I'm still unclear on the mode of inheritance. Steel may not be a single gene, or work on basic Mendelian principles.

3) Taking both #1 and #2 into account, Steel may be due to an especially "fragile" gene (or gene complex) that's particularly prone to mutation. There may well be different "versions" of Steel out there, that don't all work the same. Which leads to...

4) Crossing Steel and Dom Spot does NOT necessarily result in liveborn SpSp-lethal pups! Some "versions" of Steel may cause this, but definitely not all. I believe "my" original Steel mutation may have been lost in the years between my last occurrence of lethal pups and when I really started exploring Steel. During that gap, I crossed in an unrelated line that was later proven to have Steel-- but possibly not the *same* Steel. Since then, I have not seen any more lethals, and I have done several pairings of Sp+Sl- x Sp+Sl-, which *should* have brought them out.

I have some other theories I'm kicking around, and I have a special project I'm working on that I can't talk about quite yet, and I really need to write a follow-up article summarizing all of this. >.<

But in the meantime, if you have any questions, ask away!

[betty]

Interesting, I remember reading a lot about this a year or so ago. Can't wait for the update.

So what is it we are looking for in these steel gerbils - is there now a sure fire way of spotting it once you get your eye in? Or is it still a bit of hit and miss with the key features?

[Shooting Star]

The key feature is the white on the back paws. But it's really only visible on Black and Slate. Agouti-based colors and anything spotted will already have white paws, and there's not enough contrast on Lilac paws. Don't know about Nutmeg, as I've only just started mixing it with 'ee'.

I've been working on increasing the "steel-markings" in my lines, with varying degrees of success. Here's a recent pup who looks promising:


And here's one that decided to drive me nuts by popping up in a litter where neither parent had any connection to my lines, or gave any indication that they were Steel themselves:

[Shanawaz]

Thank you Shooting Star for the eye opening update on the write up! It sure helped me understand the gene a little bit better, as compared to the article -- mainly because you mentioned that there may be different 'versions' of steel.

I'm curious about this because I believe I may have the steel gene in my lines too. They are descended from some gerbils brought here from Canada by another Singaporean gerbil breeder named Trina, from Singapore Gerbil Clan. (Not sure what her id is on this forum. Sorry!) I realised it could be the steel gene because when bred with my mottled, the offsprings in the first litter seem to have more than the usual amount flecking. And in the second litter, it seems that some black pups are lighter than normal in pigmentation. That being said, there are uwd, uw and Sp+ in the works that may have also caused the dilution, uw being the more usual reason.

The pups from the second litter are a week old. It's also probably a good idea for me to upload some pictures of them too, which I will as soon as time permits.

[vexorg]

I thought the white on the paws was just typical for most black gerbils. Then how do you differentiate black from slate?

One of our little guys looks black at first, but there is more of a charcoal/greyness to his fur in the light.

[Shooting Star]

Aug 30, 2015 2:15:15 GMT -8 vexorg said:

I thought the white on the paws was just typical for most black gerbils. Then how do you differentiate black from slate?

White on the front paws is common in Blacks, Slates, and all other self (aa) colors. White on the back paws is not. The ways to tell Black from Slate are nail color and eye glow.

Shanawaz It could very well be. I suspect Steel is actually fairly common, people just don't notice it, or assume the white is from scarring. That's what I thought with my first one, until I bred her and all her pups had the same white marks! You've also got other potential causes in the mix as you've said.

[vexorg]

Ok, here's a close up of the one that looks black/slate in bright daylight (no camera flash):



But he has white paws, front and back. I assumed that was due to having bigger white collar under his chin.



And his white patch is kind of mirrored between his back legs:



So what colour does that make him???

[Shooting Star]

Either very minimally spotted or a WhitePaws, depending on whether you're in the US or Europe. All spotted gerbils have four white paws. Some WP lines have a neck spot like yours does. If you're in Europe, it's most likely WP. If you're in the US, it has to be Dom Spot, since we don't have the Sls gene.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards

[vexorg]

Never heard of white paws before. In europe, UK. When I read your link on steel, he seemed to fit the description of strange flecks in his fur and side of the neck. He's not black, we've had a few black gerbils, it's a strange colour.

The white paws also make the black/slate colour more difficult to see.

It's very rare to see a pure black gerbil in the UK. Most have the white band on their paws, and on their nose. The amount under their chin seems to vary from nothing to above.

[Shooting Star]

www.egerbil.com/spotting.html
www.egerbil.com/domspotsl.html

I can explain more later, it's hard to write long answers on my phone.

Sent from my HTC6500LVW using proboards